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Old 01-06-2019, 09:07 AM   #1
krilleater
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Straight on a paired board

Here's a hand from a recent 1/3 session where I had trouble. Effective stacks are around $450. Main V is a young white reg, usually plays a TAG style.

In this hand, he had a button straddle to $6 on.

Fish in BB limps, I call with 6c7c in CO, V raises to $20 from btn, fish calls, I call.

Flop ($60): 5c5s9h

x, x, he bets $20, fish calls, I call

Considering the gutshot and backdoor clubs, I think this is a decent call. Especially since I should have decent IO against 5x (mostly 5x6x and Ax5x) and I can probably bluff an overpair off their hand if I brick.

Turn 8s

x, x, he bets $75, fish folds.

Hero?

We hit our straight and want to go for value, but his range is mostly overpairs so I'm not sure which sizing to choose. Also there's a flush draw now.
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Old 01-07-2019, 01:25 AM   #2
twitcherroo
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Re: Straight on a paired board

I’d make it $200-225 or so. Not huge in terms of relative $$ but still large to most $1-3 V’s. Obviously calling if jammed over.
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Old 01-07-2019, 01:15 PM   #3
gobbledygeek
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Re: Straight on a paired board

I'm ok with the initial overlimp of the fish.

I fold to the raise. We're only 3 handed and we're OOP to what seems like a solid player, so this ain't going to make up for being in the hand with the fish, imo.

Calling draws on paired boards is dicey due to RIO. I don't hate it here due to the bet is small relative to large stacks behind and we shouldn't get ourselves into commitment decisions if hitting and not good, but it's still dicey.

I hate checking the turn. The Button could have easily been cbetting air on the flop with his 1/3rd PSB (this would be my sizing) to setup a turn check, and he could even easily be pot controlling with an overpair once 2 players call this board. We're mostly targeting getting paid off by the fish and have for some reason totally missed on attempting to do that.

As played, I just flat. A check/raise just blows him off of most hands. I would then donk the river and fold to a raise (I'm actually a little concerned on why he's still betting).

GcluelessNLnoobG
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Old 01-07-2019, 03:58 PM   #4
krilleater
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Re: Straight on a paired board

Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek View Post
I'm ok with the initial overlimp of the fish.

I fold to the raise. We're only 3 handed and we're OOP to what seems like a solid player, so this ain't going to make up for being in the hand with the fish, imo.

Calling draws on paired boards is dicey due to RIO. I don't hate it here due to the bet is small relative to large stacks behind and we shouldn't get ourselves into commitment decisions if hitting and not good, but it's still dicey.

I hate checking the turn. The Button could have easily been cbetting air on the flop with his 1/3rd PSB (this would be my sizing) to setup a turn check, and he could even easily be pot controlling with an overpair once 2 players call this board. We're mostly targeting getting paid off by the fish and have for some reason totally missed on attempting to do that.

As played, I just flat. A check/raise just blows him off of most hands. I would then donk the river and fold to a raise (I'm actually a little concerned on why he's still betting).

GcluelessNLnoobG
V tends to give up a lot (very fit/fold) so even after his raise there's a decent chance I end up playing against the fish.

This V basically never c-bets with air, so he probably has an overpair or 9T/A9s.

Not too concerned about RIO considering he has very few boat combos in his range. 78 would be a much dicier draw here.

I think the turn is my only real opportunity to build a bigger pot because so many rivers will scare him or improve his hand. I guess I could call and hope for a brick river, but I don't think he's folding over-pairs to a x/r here.

If I donk the river, it has basically the same effect (and similar sizing), but the board has probably just gotten scarier (or my hand has been ruined).
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Old 01-07-2019, 04:11 PM   #5
mdelore
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Re: Straight on a paired board

Pre is a raise or fold, probably a fold. 67s is more of a multiway limp behind hand. BTN straddle tag is going to raise us here a lot making 67s play even worse.

Flop is a nice spot for a x/r bluff. The call just plays too weak here imo. Your line is very passive to this point.

Turn I prefer a x/c, let him continue bluffing or value betting worse. He will def bet an overpair when checked to and it does nothing for us to lead into his drawing dead overcards. I don't like x/r on turn so much because his range is still very wide and bluffy.
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Old 01-07-2019, 04:25 PM   #6
gobbledygeek
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Re: Straight on a paired board

Quote:
Originally Posted by krilleater View Post
V tends to give up a lot (very fit/fold) so even after his raise there's a decent chance I end up playing against the fish.

This V basically never c-bets with air, so he probably has an overpair or 9T/A9s.

Not too concerned about RIO considering he has very few boat combos in his range. 78 would be a much dicier draw here.

I think the turn is my only real opportunity to build a bigger pot because so many rivers will scare him or improve his hand. I guess I could call and hope for a brick river, but I don't think he's folding over-pairs to a x/r here.

If I donk the river, it has basically the same effect (and similar sizing), but the board has probably just gotten scarier (or my hand has been ruined).
We're not just concerned about raiser's range regarding RIO on the flop; we also have to be somewhat concerned that the fish called the flop.

He's seen two people call this paired board and then he gets check/raised on the turn... and we think he's continuing? Heck, a lotta people don't even bet their overpairs on the turn given two people called this relatively dry paired flop (which is why I'm actually getting a little concerned he's still betting).

Calling the turn and donking the river is not the same as check/raising the turn, because check/raising the turn also threatens another big bet on top of that for the river.

GcluelessNLnoobG
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Old 01-07-2019, 05:12 PM   #7
krilleater
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Re: Straight on a paired board

Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek View Post
We're not just concerned about raiser's range regarding RIO on the flop; we also have to be somewhat concerned that the fish called the flop.

He's seen two people call this paired board and then he gets check/raised on the turn... and we think he's continuing? Heck, a lotta people don't even bet their overpairs on the turn given two people called this relatively dry paired flop (which is why I'm actually getting a little concerned he's still betting).

Calling the turn and donking the river is not the same as check/raising the turn, because check/raising the turn also threatens another big bet on top of that for the river.

GcluelessNLnoobG
He generally continues with overpairs until the river (I have lots of history with V) unless a very obvious draw comes in. He's also the type to trap with 99 on this flop, so not super concerned.

That's a very fair point about a x/r threatening another big bet on the river, that's a fair counterpoint to the fear of a scary river. I'm possible being results-oriented here (river was a 9).

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdelore View Post
Pre is a raise or fold, probably a fold. 67s is more of a multiway limp behind hand. BTN straddle tag is going to raise us here a lot making 67s play even worse.

Flop is a nice spot for a x/r bluff. The call just plays too weak here imo. Your line is very passive to this point.

Turn I prefer a x/c, let him continue bluffing or value betting worse. He will def bet an overpair when checked to and it does nothing for us to lead into his drawing dead overcards. I don't like x/r on turn so much because his range is still very wide and bluffy.
I definitely would work in a x/r bluff here, and probably should have, but have generally been toning those down a bit because I've found myself over-bluffing draws.

The paired board makes it a very decent candidate against a player who has almost no 5s in his range though.
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Old 01-07-2019, 06:38 PM   #8
SUYAPA
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Re: Straight on a paired board

I like raising myself pre more. Limp/calling is also not so bad. Even tho i dont like that we are oop. But we are deep enough to call the raise (15/25/35 rule).

Ott we could raise small and jam river or we could call, hope for a brick river and that he continues betting and jam
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