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Old 12-03-2017, 02:25 AM   #1
Badreg2017
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Straight draw with 66

Hero is new to table. 1/3 live. Hero is effective stack with $300. V1 has been pretty active in the 30 minutes I've been there, no idea if he's just had it or not. V2 is unknown.

Hero limps from UTG+2 with 6h6d, V1 makes it $15 in the CO, BB flats, I call.

Flop: 5c7s8s.

Pot:44

Check, check, v1 bets $50, v2 calls fairly quickly, hero?
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Old 12-03-2017, 02:32 AM   #2
CWsports
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Re: Straight draw with 66

I don’t like limping pre with small pairs in EP when I have aggressive players behind me as the majority of the time you will get raised and if you call you will have to play OOP. I’d much prefer to raise pre myself or fold. I think limp/calling is the worst option.
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Old 12-03-2017, 01:14 PM   #3
QuadJ
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Re: Straight draw with 66

Preflop is situational. At some tables it's OK, where stacks are reasonably deep and there are multiple opponents that will lose their stacks when you hit a set. Mostly it should be raised or folded.

On the flop I would fold to the big bet. It's tempting because there are lots of possible combinations you are getting odds against, if V1 is c-betting over cards and V2 is drawing then you are generally OK. There are also a lot of combinations you are not getting decent odds. If V1 has an over pair you are generally not getting odds against the big bet once you account for V2 blocking or making your outs dirty.

Add in the problem of getting paid once the obvious 4 card straight hits and I think fold is best. With a better read I might call if V2 wasn't in the hand but V2 just makes this too risky.
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Old 12-03-2017, 01:49 PM   #4
SometimesMonday
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Re: Straight draw with 66

Limping preflop can be ok if the table is very aggressive and you're being 3bet a lot but normally I would just open this to balance your UTG+2 opening range, or just a fold if you don't feel comfortable opening it.

Flop is tempting to call and if it was heads up I might call one time but the overbet is suspect here. Im assuming villain hasnt done this before.
Probably fold and look for a better spot
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Old 12-03-2017, 02:18 PM   #5
Askesis
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Re: Straight draw with 66

I'm going to take this time to stand on my soapbox and blast this whole "find a better spot" nonsense. It's completely irrational, because a profitable spot is a profitable spot. Yea, you'll absolutely take advantage of that slam dunk spot later, but you want to take advantage of them all. If you are panhandling on the street and someone offers you a 5, would you pass it up in hopes of finding a better spot later where someone will give you a 20? Of course not, because profit is profit. So why would you do it at the poker table?

This has nothing to do with the hand in question, but rather just "find a better spot" philosophy as a whole.

/rant

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Old 12-03-2017, 02:40 PM   #6
bhtong
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Re: Straight draw with 66

Whats the plan? V1 likely has overs or an overpair, V2 likely has a flush draw or a straight draw, so your outs may be somewhat tainted, ie. you may only have 6 clean outs for the straight, 1 for your set, if V2 is on a flush draw. If V2 has a straight draw you likely have chop outs. I think peeling here is fine. What do you plan to do on the turn?
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Old 12-04-2017, 02:55 AM   #7
ChrisV
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Re: Straight draw with 66

You probably just need to fold given the overbet from V1 and the presence of V2 possibly ruining your outs. I think call is by far the worst of the options, if I'm not folding then I'm jamming, basically as an effort to get rid of V2. If V1 calls with an overpair and V2 folds then you will lose about $30. Even if V1 calls an overpair and V2 calls with say QJss you are not actually in terrible shape - that loses around $65. Those numbers compare favorably with the $144 in the pot, if you can ever just take that down. The problem is that the overbet suggests that V1 has no intention of giving up on his hand.
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Old 12-04-2017, 02:59 AM   #8
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Re: Straight draw with 66

The problem with calling btw is that you are not even getting direct odds to draw to your straight, implied odds look pretty hopeless given how scary the board will be if you hit one of your outs, and of your outs, only offsuit 4s are anywhere even close to the nuts and even then you are subject to redraws. Because you have equity against everything but have little prospect of value if you hit, your equity is more useful as backup for a semibluff than it is to actually try to draw to.

Last edited by ChrisV; 12-04-2017 at 03:01 AM. Reason: -
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Old 12-04-2017, 06:10 AM   #9
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Re: Straight draw with 66

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisV View Post
The problem with calling btw is that you are not even getting direct odds to draw to your straight, implied odds look pretty hopeless given how scary the board will be if you hit one of your outs, and of your outs, only offsuit 4s are anywhere even close to the nuts and even then you are subject to redraws. Because you have equity against everything but have little prospect of value if you hit, your equity is more useful as backup for a semibluff than it is to actually try to draw to.
+1. Exactly what I was thinking but was just too lazy to type out.
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Old 12-04-2017, 01:35 PM   #10
gobbledygeek
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Re: Straight draw with 66

I now suspect setmining with small pocket pairs in EP at my tables are very unlikely to be profitable, so I open fold them. Even this spot ain't great. We're getting about 2:1 preflop so we need to make up about 6 bets to breakeven postflop, which will typically usually mean about 3 moderate postflop bets. Guy opening has been active, which means there is more of a chance he doesn't make a hand worth calling 3 bets postflop. And yet we'll hate most boards and won't be able to do anything about it if we whiff the flop and he bets. Highly doubt this is a profitable spot.

Guy bet huge on a drawy flop which perhaps indicates he might actually have a hand here. We're getting 3:1 on a call. We likely have about ~9ish outs (our 6s ain't necessarily clean, nor even the other 6, and even a 3 ain't necessarily clean). There's also a chance one of the Villain's has a 6 and we chop (decimating our odds in those cases). We also have extremely low IO on all our outs as unlikely we'll get much action on 4-to-a-straight board. I'm assuming given action we probably have low FE. So all-in-all, it's actually probably a fold on the flop.

GcluelessNLnoobG
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Old 12-04-2017, 01:56 PM   #11
Man of Means
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Re: Straight draw with 66

Preflop I'm on the fence - you're getting the 20:1 implied odds but are out of position and you have a typical limp/calling hand. Depends how the table is playing.

We don't have immediate odds to call as others have pointed out, and further, you're hand is not well-disguised when you hit (as 76s would be on a 3-5-9 board). Sucks, but I'd fold to the 1.2xPot bet.
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Old 12-04-2017, 02:32 PM   #12
The Rumor
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Re: Straight draw with 66

Quote:
Originally Posted by QuadJ View Post
Preflop is situational. At some tables it's OK, where stacks are reasonably deep and there are multiple opponents that will lose their stacks when you hit a set. Mostly it should be raised or folded.

On the flop I would fold to the big bet. It's tempting because there are lots of possible combinations you are getting odds against, if V1 is c-betting over cards and V2 is drawing then you are generally OK. There are also a lot of combinations you are not getting decent odds. If V1 has an over pair you are generally not getting odds against the big bet once you account for V2 blocking or making your outs dirty.

Add in the problem of getting paid once the obvious 4 card straight hits and I think fold is best. With a better read I might call if V2 wasn't in the hand but V2 just makes this too risky.
this

and we're also going to get bombed by V1 on lots of blank turns, we can't build in much weight on "we might get to see a free river card"
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Old 12-04-2017, 04:26 PM   #13
mikko
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Re: Straight draw with 66

All 3 options could work. Calling likely worse and highest variance.

If we shove. We need them both to fold roughly 12% of time to break even.

Worst case scenario is they both call, one has flush draw other has a overpairs (unless your super mubsy) then your fearing a set and a flushdraw.

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Old 12-04-2017, 09:42 PM   #14
hyperknit
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Re: Straight draw with 66

fold pre.
fold or jam flop, i lean slightly towards jamming as you can represent 55 77 88, and this is a nice hand to balance that range with. (I dont like calling for reasons previously stated)

in general tho, I dont like the loose passive strategy that hero is using. limping/calling and playing with a weak hand out of position without initiative is not as good as being aggressive where we can get fold equity.
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Old 12-04-2017, 10:38 PM   #15
Badreg2017
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Re: Straight draw with 66

I thought it was extremely close between shove and fold but opted to fold. V1 had an unknown hand and shut down on the turn and V2 had TT.
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