If your table is playing deep and you are deep as well, you know the answer if they are willing to stack off with worse.


End the discussion it is weak.

Chuck berry was decided new topic:

He was born Charles Edward Anderson Berry to a large family in St. Louis. A bright pupil, Berry developed a love for poetry and hard blues early on, winning a high school talent contest with a guitar-and-vocal rendition of Jay McShann's big band number, "Confessin' the Blues." With some local tutelage from the neighborhood barber, Berry progressed from a four-string tenor guitar up to an official six-string model and was soon working the local East St. Louis club scene, sitting in everywhere he could. He quickly found out that black audiences liked a wide variety of music and set himself to the task of being able to reproduce as much of it as possible. What he found they really liked -- besides the blues and Nat King Cole tunes -- was the sight and sound of a black man playing white hillbilly music, and Berry's showmanlike flair, coupled with his seemingly inexhaustible supply of fresh verses to old favorites, quickly made him a name on the circuit. In 1954, he ended up taking over pianist Johnny Johnson's small combo and a residency at the Cosmopolitan Club soon made the Chuck Berry Trio the top attraction in the black community, with Ike Turner's Kings of Rhythm their only real comppetition.

I don't know where my own game comes into this

Like I said I raise 22+ at just about every table I play at, but I was just citing an example of why a good player may not want to do that (if he oftentimes finds himself clueless on what to do with 55 on j 8 3)

Well I am assuming the table has some deep stacked donkeys. Also I have the image of a nutjob and am gonna get paid off because they have seen me barrel light before and can not hand read and realise that is a completely different situation.

If you sit at a table full of a donk with a stack you need to be seeing as many flops as possible as cheaply as possible with hands that can make monsters. The last thing we want to do is fold 33 utg and instead of getting the 450 quid we would've, the donkey does his money an orbit later to some nit.

Obviously it would be preferable if we had these hands on the button but we don't. Obviously when we play like this it is easy to see what we have got to a good player, but most players are not good, they are not paying attention properly and they did not travel all the way to the casino to fold top pair/overpairs/ flush draws etc

That does not sound like Chuck talk

You guys are missing my whole point. Playing oop is just tough with these table dynamics. Not to mention making a hand in live poker. Top that off with getting paid oop is just tough. 22-66 your options on winning the hand are just low. You are basically playing for 2 outs. I like drawing hands way better then small pairs. I already raise 88+, AK, AQ, AJ, KJ and KQ. So adding 22-77 is raising too much oop if you ask me.

Do you guys even abuse the button?

Maybe I'm just a position nit. OTB I'm either raising or limping depending on how good my hand is. I rarely call raises unless I have pairs Axs, and K9s+. I find it so easy to play aggressive and outplay these opponents or create favorable situations in position (HJ, CO and BU). With all that being said if you start opening too much oop your stack will dwindle quick.

33 call ... miss ... fold
33 call ... miss ... fold
33 call ... miss ... fold
33 call ... miss ... fold
33 call ... miss ... fold
33 call ... miss ... fold
33 call ... miss ... fold
33 call ... HIT ... call ... bet ...

Net loss

33 raise, call, call, call, call, whiff, c/f
33 raise, call, whiff, c-bet, win
33 raise, call, whiff, c-bet, get called, c/f bad turn
33 raise, call, call, call, call, whiff, c/f
33 raise, call, call, c-bet, get called, double barrell favorable turn, win
33 raise, all folds, win
33 raise, call, call, call, call, whiff, c/f
33 raise, call, call, hit set, get a lot of money in as a big favorite most of the time

NET about break-even or slight winner, but playing more hands is fun and improves your image

FYP

Yeah open folding 88 from any position LOL?

Srsly.

Agree, because you've got some, er, post-flop skill (I hope). I prefer to meditate.

But "improves your image" = b....a....l....

There's two more consonants and two more vowels. If you don't hang, then you might win a non-set pot

This is completely backwards. Small PP's do best around 100-150 BB, at 300BB or more the ability to make the nuts (or rep the nuts) becomes more important, and with a small pair you can't have the nuts unless you have quads.

This is such ******ed logic. There are a lot of situations where you should call with a small PP to try to hit a set. Obviously you shouldn't play any pair for any pre-flop amount and in every situation, but to make a blanket generalization of "don't set-mine" is completely ******ed.

I lol'ed.

Being 3b happens rarely live, much rarer than online. Set over set is also a lot more rare live than online because live donks will pay off bottom set with many worse hands. Online this may not be the case. Most of those reasons are why opening with a small PP is better live than online, not the other way around.

Again, this logic doesn't make any sense.

Just because most of your profit comes from abusing position, doesn't mean pairs can't be played for set value. They are not contradictory.

Also small pairs are much easier to play in earlyposition than crappy broadway hands like kj, qj etc utg which rarely make nutted hands and often make top pair mediocre kicker.

Btw is pokerallday a windup account?

Yeah, I forgot this.

I'd much rather open 33/22 from EP than KJo/QJo. Not even close.

Suited is a different story, but crap offsuit broadways from EP are going to be losers vs just about anyone. Outkicked too often even when you "hit" and you get a very favorable flop way less often than you do with a pair (set). And in a multi-way pot, bottom set is gonna do way better than top pair and non-nut kicker (which is what most "good" flops are gonna be).

It's the crappy sooted broadways that kill me from EP.

Tonight I hate the predictable luck.

waiting at 2/3 I won half of the hands in a dealer down including runner runner vs a 3/5 reg with 106hh on an all spade flop I joked I'd use up all the luck en route to +550.

At 3/5 3am and I've poured 1k into this black hole of poker talent.

mucked AK which would have scooped a 1600 pot [over a man slowplaying AA vs KQs, and 1010. Q J 3 6 10. lolz]

kept 8x'ing the pretty KJs hands only to find out I was getting cold called by AK and kickered.

Math isn't your strong suit.

Think x = 20, and figure out how many x there are.

4x pre, hero hits set, bet/call or check/call flop for 70, which is 3.5x, together is 7.5x, hence 7.5:1.

Funny you can't figure out a simple post without explanation, and yet you love to make such posts.

How many 3bets to your EP raises does take for you to quit raising pre?

I'll take the ice cream

flop bottom set with 8d8h on 8c9sTs board, bet-raise-all in in front of me. fail to account for ~$400k BBJ and fold. river 8s, winner had QsJs. FML.

What was effective?

I don't get the point of this question.

What you failed to account for was that you should be stacking off even without BBJ unless you were super super deep and getting terrible odds. You have 35% equity even if villain showed you the nut straight, and other things are obv in his range.

BBJ was just the icing on the cake, really. It was terrible to begin with.

#harshtruth

i'm not a clever man.

2

If you are referncing the punchline of that comic thingy, you have regained my respect =P

Or rephrase the question to:

How many 3bets to your EP raises does [it] take for you to start widening your 4bet range?