+1

If raising 22-66 UTG is not balance then I'm completely lost. Raising 77 UTG is borderline. I ditch them all until I build my stack above 200bbs. Then I add 77 and 55 but not 66. I like 55 lmao. But raising 22-66 at a normal rate with 100bb stack is balance idc what you say. You shouldn't be raising that crap UTG.

Lol you don't make anything by definition when you fold. Opening small pps is profitable utg in llsnl because the games are lol. It takes a flop call from one person to break even on direct set odds, a turn call gets you 15-1, and a river call can get you 30+ to one depending on sizing.

Given I routinely get called by 2 people on flops multiway, it's pretty easy to make up for the times you check fold when you don't hit. Hell, we're not even counting times it checks through and you get a free turn/river.

If you get one caller, you can do pretty well just by playing poker.

The times you shouldn't do this is when your table isn't filled with morans. Getting paid is sososososo easy in llsnl and people don't bluff 3b you basically ever.

also your stack is not as important as what the effective stacks are

things I would worry about opening small PPs UTG

-rake
-being 3b and folding
-missing post
-set over set
-hitting set and being behind
-hitting set and being paid
-hitting set and still losing

things not to worry about
hitting your set 1/8 times that u see the flop and then getting paid

Games in London are max 400 for 1/2 and max 1000 for 1/3 so when deep a set is even more profitable. Obv if ur up against good players u might get someone who only sticks in 100bb with top pair!

Well duh, but did you're sitting at a table with nothing but 40bbs stacks you should move regardless.

Right, and you said you needed 15-20 to 1 because of all of these concerns. When I show how easy it is to get 25+, your ability to comprehend English falls apart.

We don't have to raise small pps utg anyway. We can limp. This is often better as often we are not gonna be winning the hand unless we flop a set as we are so oop so it's good to make sure we get to see a flop. Again this tactic will be insanely obv to anyone good who can hand read. Luckily most low stakes players can just about read their own hand.

Fwiw im raising 22+ at like 80% of my tables if my image is good.

I'm not arguing that your making more money by folding then raising.

What I am saying is that if you are at a table of competant players, and you can honestly evaluate your own play, raising 55 UTG is a losing play if you have a tendency to cbet bad board, double barrel bad turns, or just not play very good postflop.

Imo it takes a lot of experience live to be able to profitably play 22-88 for a raise as the calling ranges of your opponents are often very wide. You need to be able to bet thinly to make it profitable.

i.e getting 2 streets with 99 on J 2 2 4.

My argument with balance is that you only need to be worried about being in exploitable if your being exploited.

If the table doesnt adjust to your QQ+ UTG range, then why tweak it until you can profitably play mid-pairs?

KJ and KQo should be a snap fold for just about everyone though UTG.

You should play small pocket pairs UTG because they are profitable. If they aren't, don't.

^ most ldo post ever

idk what balance has to do with it at all.

You've never seen people play hands that aren't profitable? I see good players defend their blind with 106o cause "I can outplay them after the flop". It's not as ldo as you think.

Live players tend to overestimate their own skill and level themselves into such frustrating spots by trying to imitate durrrr.

"I can outplay them after the flop" means that they think it's profitable...

So it stands, play hands if you think it's profitable.

It helps if your judgement is good obv.

Seems pretty ldo to me.

I still dont understand that AT ALL

First off don't limp small pairs UTG if you are only playing no set no bet. Secondly the day you find a llsnl table without complete morons is the day I see a unicorn fly. Knock it off with the non sense.

Also what are these good players defending their blind with T6o? Do you mean like BB vs SB raise by a huge fish super deep? Because that's obviously fine.

wtf, limping small pocket pairs is perfectly fine if you get paid off enough and don't get raised often.

I usually raise and don't limp much, but it can definitely be viable on some tables.

These statements are contradictory. Because low stakes tables always have morons limping small pps is profitable.

Chuck Berry-Promise Land

Who is with me?

Link of Chuck for you all

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wENL7...e_gdata_player

Go ahead and limp small pairs UTG. I'm not waiting to hit a hand to bet. Making a hand is hard in live poker especially oop. I go for the easy money raise with position and cbet and double your opponents off weak hands.

Mostly referencing converted internet players vs an LP open or whatever. Don't dwell on my example, just used a situation to express an ideology that a lot of players have.

This ideology causes them to be in super tough spots and make huge mistakes because they stray away from polished ABC.

I do not find it super profitable to raise 22-66 at a fair amount of casinos in ep

If you are at a table that is fit or fold, sure raise. If you are at a table that is relatively deep, also stack off when you hit your hands, sure go for it.

This discussion is fairly weak and is highly dependent upon heros image, table dynamics, and effective stacks. You guys are boring me, new discussion.

Chuck berry or banana peanut butter ice cream?

Converted "so called" good internet players that you're scared of are playing llsnl, it doesn't matter what they did online. Stop being scared of these dudes. They wouldn't be playing llsnl if their top notch players. Even if they are good the structure takes away from their abilities. Llsnl is like playing with training wheels. Really no room to get exploited or use all the knowledge we or they have. Internet players don't understand that logic.

Well we can take that easy money too. It is just that people play so horribly and overplay their holdings so much that we want to get into as many spots as possible where we can flop a nutted hand which is easy to play. Note I play usually deep games where the upside of flopping a set is even better than 100bb max.

Raising is gonna be pointless if we are at a wild no folding table as we will get multiple callers or even worse raised and forced to lay downour hand. On the flop we can only bet if we hit our hand because there will be so many people in the pot and few of them will be into folding.

Would it not make sense to limp then?

Chuck Berry, but I didn't watch the clip.