Starting hands in UTG (Reader beware) - Page 3 - Live Low-stakes No Limit Poker Forum

I've never had a significant sample of hands where all my pocket pairs weren't profitable hands. This is in games that were all significantly tougher, versus better opponents, than any live cash game I've ever sat in. Including up to 10/20 nl.

At llsnl, if you can't play it profitable...you suck.

from UTG?

you are a stud apparently

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06-21-2012 , 11:16 PM

#52

ikestoys

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Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 94,424

Quote:

Originally Posted by dhcg86

no idea what you just said

Unsurprising

Quote:

but we can just agree to disagree

Lolkbro

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06-21-2012 , 11:17 PM

#53

DevinLake

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Quote:

Originally Posted by dhcg86

you are a stud apparently

ty.

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06-21-2012 , 11:19 PM

#54

PokahAllday

adept

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 906

I can't believe we are arguing 22-66 being profitable UTG. I know online ranges people raise any pp UTG. But in live poker I can't see it being profitable.

On another note LeBron is about to win the championship.

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06-21-2012 , 11:22 PM

#55

dhcg86

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I think ure backwards in that theory

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06-21-2012 , 11:40 PM

#56

tmckendry

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Quote:

Originally Posted by PokahAllday

Really? FR raise 22-66 UTG? Online is crazah

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06-21-2012 , 11:57 PM

#57

PokahAllday

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Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 906

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmckendry

Really? FR raise 22-66 UTG? Online is crazah

The reason its profitable online is because people actually respect an UTG range. So the meta game of people respecting UTG raises can be used to your advantage. Poker is still a game where your opponent can't see your cards.

Its a proven fact having pp's in your utg range online is profitable. Plenty of winners at all levels do it.

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06-22-2012 , 12:25 AM

#58

dhcg86

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players online take notes and adjust accordingly. I really doubt playing PPs utg is profitable online.

But gimme a few days and I will find out

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06-22-2012 , 12:33 AM

#59

DrTJO

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Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 1,408

Quote:

Originally Posted by PokahAllday

So, your saying that we should raise small p/p to balance our UTG range? Does that mean we have to be prepared to c-bet/possibly barrel, when we miss our set 87.5% of the time? Keep in mind that our UTG raising range is super-tight (say less 4%).

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06-22-2012 , 12:56 AM

#60

dhcg86

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IM getting mixed responses on the UTG 6m and FR online

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06-22-2012 , 01:06 AM

#61

tmckendry

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Well, its compare UTG FR online to UTG FR live. I'd be surprised if opening 66-22 is standard online

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06-22-2012 , 01:09 AM

#62

PokahAllday

adept

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 906

Quote:

Originally Posted by dhcg86

IM getting mixed responses on the UTG 6m and FR online

Of course depending on what types of players you talk to. I didn't say every style raises small pairs UTG. But a good lag is raising 10% UTG(not top 10%), 109s, QJs and all pairs are in that range.

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06-22-2012 , 01:14 AM

#63

RobFarha

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22-66 are different UTG live. Those hands should be folds unless your at a really weak table where you know your going to play so much better post-flop that its worth a raise.

Balance is such a joke live and it is the misapplied concept I see on this forum.

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06-22-2012 , 01:18 AM

#64

1ns71nct

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Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 3,415

Balance used live is when you have serious history with someone, rarely is it ever needed live.

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06-22-2012 , 01:19 AM

#65

PokahAllday

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Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 906

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobFarha

22-66 are different UTG live. Those hands should be folds unless your at a really weak table where you know your going to play so much better post-flop that its worth a raise.

Balance is such a joke live and it is the misapplied concept I see on this forum.

GTO for llsnl and most 5/10 games is to play an exploitable game. If someone is suggesting balance they have no idea what they're talking about in live poker.

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06-22-2012 , 01:35 AM

#66

DrTJO

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Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 1,408

Quote:

Originally Posted by PokahAllday

GTO for llsnl and most 5/10 games is to play an exploitable game. If someone is suggesting balance they have no idea what they're talking about in live poker.

I was reading between the lines of your comments and concluded that you were suggesting a balanced UTG range.

For those who say balance is irrelevant to LLSNL my response is

My response is

because this a default 2+2 stance that assumes players will use "balance" as an excuse to become spewtards.

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06-22-2012 , 01:35 AM

#67

dhcg86

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Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 12,410

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobFarha

sadly, the last two pages disagree

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06-22-2012 , 01:40 AM

#68

1ns71nct

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If you do not balance your blinds, you are some serious whales

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06-22-2012 , 01:41 AM

#69

RobFarha

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The last 2 pages can keep 3betting 53ss and complaining when villian "put ya on AK!"

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06-22-2012 , 01:42 AM

#70

PokahAllday

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Live players don't start playing optimal until 10/20 live when you have at least 6 good players at your table. You actually need balance in all aspects to counter adjust to players adjusting to you. Anybody who disagree's is either not confident in their play or need to get MUBS out of their system. Llsnl players and most 5/10 tables are just completely horrible.

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06-22-2012 , 01:42 AM

#71

madlondoner

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Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 5,515

If the table is playing tight then raise utg. Otherwise limp and hope to flop a set. Obviously this is insanely see-through to anyone good but a set live is basically the nuts and an opportunity to make nutted hands vs idiots is too good to pass up!

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06-22-2012 , 01:42 AM

#72

ikestoys

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Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 94,424

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobFarha

No one is making a balance argument. They're saying you make a **** ton of money when you flop a set 4-5 way. It'd be a terrible play if villains are good, but they hardly ever are.

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06-22-2012 , 01:46 AM

#73

RobFarha

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Quote:

Originally Posted by DrTJO

I was replying to this...

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06-22-2012 , 01:50 AM

#74

1ns71nct

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ikestoys

No one is making a balance argument. They're saying you make a **** ton of money when you flop a set 4-5 way. It'd be a terrible play if villains are good, but they hardly ever are.

And they are trying to argue that you dont make more raising than you would by simply folding, lets see some math.