1/2$ NLHE, full ring, Friday afternoon

Hero: 270$, mid 20s white, reg, been at table for about 1 hour. If I remember correctly, I won 2 pots after c-bets that hit TPGK. V prolly is paying zero attention to anything expect himself.

V: $200, mid 30s male, black, loud, talkative. He is into the game for about $600. I think it was 200, 100, 100, 200. To his defense, he has gotten it in 2 of those times as a favorite and got sucked out on. Other time, he didn't show. He is on my direct left and I have heard him say things like "No matter what I do, my hands wont hold up!" and "What do I have to do to get a hand to hold!" ...stuff like this. He is stuck, but he isnt in the 'fuq the world' mindset...more of a 'wtf do i have to do to win' mindset.
He is probably the most active player at the table; maybe because of his 'get-unstuck' mindset.

The Hand:
Hero opens to 15$ in MP with JJ. V is next to act, hesitates a bit more than usual, and calls...All others fold...heads up to flop.

The Flop: 733r ($33)
Hero bets 25$. After about 5 seconds, V asks how much Hero has behind. Not sure why he did this, since he is sitting directly next to me. V tosses four green chips, raising to $100 all day.

Hero?

My thoughts:
V is def loose enough to show up with A3, 23, 34, A7, K7. I think with his "must have a hand hold up" mentality, he would 3 bet with QQ+ pre. 88-TT is def in his range as well. Would he really raise this much with a 3, though? I think not.

Taking into account I expect him to 3 bet with qq+ and the fact that his raise is too big for a 3, I am putting him on a big 7 or 88-TT. Is this thinking flawed?

With a V that is visibly and openly emotional, how do we proceed?
I think calling is by far the worst move. Do we fold and wait for a better spot? OR shove to put the pressure on him?

Board: 7c 3d 3h
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 67.666% 67.67% 00.00% 36174 0.00 { JhJs }
Hand 1: 32.334% 32.33% 00.00% 17286 0.00 { TT-88, A7s, A3s, K7s, 43s, 32s, A7o, A3o, K7o }


All in

Reads like an overpair to me, and it could be as big as QQ or even KK.

He won't hesitate with 3x in his hand, because it would have been a simple call or fold decision, and he's unlikely to hesitate with anything else that connect with this board.

His hesitation pre-flop was more of a "should I 3-bet here?"

I think it looks more like over pairs and 77 than 3x. Over pairs to the 7 though, not just the JJ.

77 has no reason to raise given that we don't need such big raise to get it all in by river. We can eliminate that from his range.

If V weren't horrible and stuck $600 maybe he would make good decisions. Def can have 77.

He would have to have major MUBS to overplay 77 on 733 board.

Putting someone on 77 in this spot is just MUBS.

Villain probably has qq or kk, thought about raising pf but has been running bad so needed to see a non ax flop first. He's now telling you he has a big hand and doesn't want to be drawn out on again.

Some insight on the hands he was stacked where you saw his cards would obviously bbe quite helpful. If he can or has shown to overplay mediocre holdings (whether he was good or not) that obviously changes everything

I forgot to add the note about Angles. The other three times this guy got it all in, he asked his opponent "do you have XYZ?" (Meaning the nuts or near nuts). Each time V 'trusted' the other person in the hand and mucked before seeing thier actual cards. I was sitting next to V so I saw him hold his cards up to himself (and me, whether he realizes it or not). When the other person said "yes, I have XYZ", V mucked nearly instantly.

In my hand, I shoved flop and V hesitated, then called me. He held up AA, without tabling it, and says, "do you have a 3?"

How much of a scumbag would I be if I said yes and waited for him to fold? I'm not much of an encourager of angles, but I am not instigating this, just replying. After all, we lie with our chips when bluffing to do whatever we have to do to win the pot, and we often blatantly lie when in a hand to do whatever we have to so that we scoop the pot (Ex: I bluff shove all in and V asks "will you show me if I fold?", hero says "sure". V folds, expecting hero to show his hand, yet hero mucks...hero did what he had to do to win the pot, all within the rules. Not saying I do this, just an exapmle)

So would this be an angle if I reply "yes" when questioned about holding a 3?

Complete scumbag, imo.

Don't you have to show your hand to win the pot? If you say "yes," and he folds, then you show your hand, isn't that "illegal" (for lack of a better term coming to mind) in most rooms? I think it is where I play.

Even if it's fine in your room, it's a terrible thing to do. It is not an angle -- it's lying/cheating.

Massive cheating scumbag

About as scummy as it gets imo. Other than blatantly stacking the deck or marking cards I guess.

In most poker rooms, the house can actually pull cards out of the muck if a player misrepresents his hand at showdown.

We're not "putting him on 77"; we're just acknowledging that it's in his range.

Same thing IMO.

77 should not be in his range at all, just like how AA is very unlikely to be in his range either.

I think the pause here is more indicative of a hand that he's not sure that he wants to commit with. More along the lines of 99-QQ (and sometimes KK). He's debating what he wants to do on later streets. Which tells me that he's got a strong hand that can be beat, and he's a bit scared.

We are ahead of that range, but once he raises on the flop, I think that he drops out some of the TT, and almost all of the 99 from his range. He's still scared, but he's obviously now more confident in this value of his hand. I think his range gets stronger post flop, and turns more into TT-KK. And now we are losing to that range.
2cents, here for the taking or leaving.



Angling Question Response:
It's completely unethical to lie about your hand at showdown.
It's also against the rules, and I've heard of people being kicked out for it.
I would never think about doing something like this as it's just deceitful.
(I would think about it, because I think about lots of things, but I would never think about doing it.)

Having said that, rules question:
Does "Show Down" start after everyone is all in, or once the river is reached?
So, for example, lets say me and person X get it all in pre flop, and when we are both all in, but before the cards are dealt, can he then lie about his hand, or is it still considered protected/unethical? Obviously if we are NOT all in he can lie about his hand.

Just curious.

OP would get his hand smashed with a hammer at old school under ground games for being a lousy cheater.

Ban, imo. And just lol at the logic 'we lie when we bluff, so why is angling a problem?'

Those are not the same thing at all. Including the top of someone's range in their range is not MUBS.

Right on the kisser!
Telling villain you'll show your hand once he folds is not nearly as bad as this would be, but still really douchy.

Also this is a pretty easy jam, pretty sure you only noticed the read he hesitated preflop right after he showed you aces. Hindsight bias.

And yeah re: the angle question, good lord no, that is not ok. Lying to try to get a pot that's not yours makes you a ginormous scumbag, whether it's expressly forbidden in your room or not. The rationale that we lie all the time during the hand is irrelevant, because we're trying to affect an opponent's decision making within the game. In this situation, all action in the hand is over, you're just trying to get the dealer to push the pot to the wrong person.

His range is capped and it does not have 77 in it.

Clear enough for you?

LOL @ the angling question.

Didn't he actually have AA in the hand?

Result-oriented.

If I were OP and wrong, I would try to work on my observation skills and figure out what other variables that I may be overlooking.