Would like to get thoughts on a hand played last night.

3/5 NL at local casino. Hero bought in short for 300 and had built up to 550ish at the time of the hand.

Villain relevant to this hand had a 2000 plus stack when hero sat down and was down to 600ish at the time of hand.Possibly tilted. He had been raising 6x pre and oversizing c bets and winning small pots.Range is fairly loose but not crazy. Early on in the session hero was pushed off a couple hands when the villain would overbet.


hero is on the button with jhjd with two limps in front makes it 6x to go

villain flats in small blind folded back to hero

pot 75

flop is 2d3d5s

villain bets 60 hero flats

pot 195

turn 5c

villain shoves all in

hero tanks and calls and is all in

river ks

Thoughts?

Id probably shove flop after villain donks as this will often be a combo draw 4-5 etc, as played id call but not be fist pumping.

I thought that I missed a flop shove as well after the fact.

I also have been kicking around that I should have laid down on the turn...I am either beat or a slight favorite playing for stacks. this is a big game for me that I was taking a shot in.

I like how you played it. You shove the flop, you probably don't get any more of V's $. Sucks he had a King so sorry.

You're gonna shove $520 over this $60 bet? That's terrible.

A good point. reraising 180 might be better leaves me with 320 and still not pot committed

You are folding an overpair with $320 remaining when the pot is $435??? The purpose of raising to $180 is not so that you can get away from the hand. It is so that you can extract value from the Villain. I don't like the usage of the term of pot commitment in cash games. You are never committed to a pot. You either have good odds vs his range or you don't.

I see the comments advising to gii, but honestly what can V have that we beat, after you call his flop almost PSB donk, your hand range is screaming overpairs, we should assume V knows this and we should also assume that V knows that we know his range is quite wide , meaning when he still continues on the turn hes hoping you view him as just overbtting again and hoping you will be a nonbeliever, I don't feel comfortable putting in my stack with just an overpair here, perhaps at best your flipping with him , but for stacks ,if he's as active as you make him out to be I would just wait for a more favorable spot , emphasis on the fact that he is active and we don't need to win every hand to win his entire stack, just need a bit of patience perhaps and a better spot which should come fairly soon it seems

How is it screaming overpairs? Hero can have a lot weaker hands like flush draws and ace highs since those are two overs and a gutshot and ahead of most of villain's bluffs. Also if he's active that's even more of a reason to call. Why wait around for a "better" spot to stack an active villain when there's a perfect opportunity to stack him now? When the inactive guy puts his stack in is when I'm concerned.

Highly doubt villain slowplays preflop with QQ+ then doesn't continue to slowplay. We're only beat by flopped sets and 5x. Way more worried about 5x since why would he double overbet shove the turn with a boat and shut out your draws? He can also have a lot of middling pairs like 77-TT that he's shoving for protection. In fact I expect him to shove those middling pairs way more often than he would 5x.

Long story short, snap call. Especially since villain is tilted and more likely to be spewing.

WHOOPS missed the straight haha. I should go to bed. But that's still a small part of the range he'd have with this line. Near pot size donk with a flopped straight? Yeah OK.

44, A2, A3, 66-TT, 23, several diamond combos.

Are you only giving him credit for 5x and straights?

Yes your right, perhaps I should also go back to sleep, I guess with his previous hh there's still abit too much hero beats here ,

No, wrong wrong wrong. You are not a slight favorite when the board pairs against an aggrotard. You're def playing for stacks here and happy to do it. And you're not shoving flop just to get him to fold, youre making a normal raise to tax him for his garbage hand he's going to play. It looks like you lost to a random suckout, but instead of reinforcing the idea that you should have folded it should reinforce the idea that you should punish this guy with bets and raises. If he's donking with some random 5 then he's donking with a lot worse.

Good advice. I very much like the term aggrotard... excellent description of his play in the few hours I was at the table

If a flush or a another straight card falls on the turn I would definitely consider it

definitely trying to let him hang himself

Spent quite a bit of time on this line of thinking.

Oh I've had players yell at me at the table for hero calling them saying "omgosh how could you call there, I could have totally flopped a straight!" as if any time someone shows any interest in the pot they immediately must have the nuts. But thats how live players think, they are very passive and they project their playstyle on to you, so if he'd fold to a donkbet he assumes you would to, hence the reason he lead out.

I think you are missing many points being made here. Good luck to you.

So villain rips ~$460 into a $195 pot on turn? No way I'm folding JJ here vs this line from this villain.

A flopped set or straight will more often than not c/r flop. If he did donk the flop with a set I can't think he'd power bomb paired board on turn.

Hello fellow Grinders,

Here's a little analysis I made of this spot regarding Hero's range and Villain's range and why we should do what we will do.

Hero's range :

Straights : A4s (4)
Over Pairs : AA-66 (6 combos each)
Flush Draws : AK;AQ;AJ;AT;KQ;KJ;QJ;JT;T9;98;87;76 suited of diamonds (1 combo each)

This makes our range contain almost 70 combos of hands. If we want to make an unexploitable call We have to calculate the minimum defence frequency
MDF = pot/(pot+bet)= 195/(195+450) = 30%
This comes down to calling the better 30% of hands in our range which is almost 22 combos.
The best hands to call will be :
Straights : A4s (4)
Over Pairs : AA(3) ; KK(6) ; QQ (3); JJ(6)

I think we should fold all our flush draws since if our opponent has a full house he played like this we're drawing dead.
Since we will be inclined to fold our aces with the ace of diamonds that blocks a decent amount of our opponents potential nut flush draws.
And since our opponent would rather call KQ than KJ in the SB I think there's merit to calling JdJx over QdQx.
As it is displayed my conclusion is that our JdJh is a borderline between a call and a fold.

Villain's range :

Now let's take at Villain's range in this spot and how our hand fares against that range :
Since Villain is flatting on the SB he should have many broadways and some suited aces of diamonds as well as some medium Pairs.
But considering the line he has followed this is what his range might look like
TT-22 ; AdTd-Ad4d ; KdQd ; Td9d-7d6d ; 65s-54s
By putting this range against our JdJh in the Pokerstrategy equilab we find that our hand has 70% equity.
Our opponent is giving us a 41% odds on this call, so this is a clear cut CALL.

Conclusion :
Following the two thought very neutral processes, I think that we need to call this hand.
Now if we are factoring that we have a history of folding to villain's overbets, we definitly have to call.
Finally, I think you played this hand in the right way and I don't think there's merit to raising the flop since we will only chase villain's pure bluffs, whereas he will be calling us with made hands and drawing hands anyway.
I hope my analysis was of help and I'm open to any critics and opinions

Less combos of overpairs, less combos of flush draws, missing A5 and probably more 5x.

The 5 on the turn is really unlucky for you. It makes it hard to discount overpairs on the turn, and it improves a giant chunk of his range. Thinking logically, the overbet on the turn either means a big power play with a diamond draw, or that he really doesn't want more cards to come out on both streets, which is true for a straight, and now every 5x. The latter should be more likely. After all, we really don't know much about V besides some overbets. Calling here could be an over-adjustment. Not sure.

I'm probably raising to about 200 on the flop and GII on 60-70% of turns.

It's just one of those spots where the V can be very wide and sometimes you're going to wrong, but most of the time you're going to be putting pressure on V with the best hand and forcing him to put money in the middle with weaker made hands and draws.

Never raising the flop.

Isn't 5 on the turn one of the worst cards for us? I figure his flop donk range has a ton of 5's (hence flop raise)

Granted, don't think turned trips will just barrel again all in...

Interesting analysis. I am going to check out the equilar. Thanks for this