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Old 06-28-2018, 03:06 PM   #1
bachegabrielsen
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Squeeze spot 1/2

9-handed 1$/2$

UTG ($300) opens $12
MP ($300) calls $12
Button ($200) calls $12
Hero SB ($500) K♣️Q♠️ 3! $55

UTG seems okay, a bit wide preflop raising range. MP and button are tight and passive, button called a small river bet with second nuts in a previous hand vs hero.

Is this squeeze too loose? Thinking of flatting hands like KQs


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Old 06-28-2018, 03:15 PM   #2
c0rnBr34d
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Re: Squeeze spot 1/2

I hate it. From the SB you'll be OOP after the flop. An UTG raise typically represents strength. Two other callers who will be behind you make this more potentially risky. Who are these players? Did you just sit down? Do you have any reads? Why do you think you can scoop here? Even if the table is that soft, we can find a better spot than OOP 4 ways with KQo...
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Old 06-28-2018, 04:18 PM   #3
DumbosTrunk
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Re: Squeeze spot 1/2

I like that you chose to 3! rather than call with KQo. Sizing is good too, could even go $65-$70. But given V descriptions (tight passive), the callers could be very strong and you'll probably get called by at least one of them with a dominated hand. Fold is best.
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Old 06-28-2018, 06:16 PM   #4
SUYAPA
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Re: Squeeze spot 1/2

Squeezing is a lot better than flatting. But sizing is too small. Should be around 70
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Old 06-29-2018, 03:36 AM   #5
Minatorr
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Re: Squeeze spot 1/2

Big spew.

If you're going to 3b, 3b KQs. Even then Im not squeezing KQs here vs 6x UTG open and 2 callers.

Sizing is way too small. Should be minimum $65+, 70+ preferable.

Fold >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3b > call
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Old 06-29-2018, 10:13 AM   #6
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Re: Squeeze spot 1/2

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Originally Posted by Minatorr View Post
Fold >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3b > call
I’m rarely a fan of calling raises with KQo, but better than 4:1 direct pot odds and relative position - I think we should be able to steal some pots postflop when PFR x.

A 3! needs to be like $70-75 to really be effective here. If stacks were deeper I would like it better but I think everyone is too shallow to be effective. You’re gonna be basically shoving flops with air given how shallow everyone is.

I kind of like flatting in this specific spot and just proceeding cautiously on Kxx or Qxx flops. If UTG is opening wide-ish then he’s going to have some hands we dominate.
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Old 06-29-2018, 10:56 AM   #7
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Re: Squeeze spot 1/2

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I like that you chose to 3! rather than call with KQo. Sizing is good too, could even go $65-$70. But given V descriptions (tight passive), the callers could be very strong and you'll probably get called by at least one of them with a dominated hand. Fold is best.
Sizing is bad IMO. He's giving UTG 2.16:1 on a call with what is already likely to be a strong range. This isn't going to get enough folds, nor would this get enough value when OP actually has QQ+/AK and wants to play for it.

My rule is 4x OOP and + 1x more for every caller. I'd be making it 70-75 here

This all being said, yeah, just fold. This is live 1/2 NL. No reason to do anything but stuff value in their faces preflop.
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Old 06-29-2018, 11:57 AM   #8
deeeznutz
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Re: Squeeze spot 1/2

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Squeezing is a lot better than flatting. But sizing is too small. Should be around 70
Agree with this.
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Old 06-29-2018, 04:25 PM   #9
Minatorr
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Re: Squeeze spot 1/2

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Iím rarely a fan of calling raises with KQo, but better than 4:1 direct pot odds and relative position - I think we should be able to steal some pots postflop when PFR x.

A 3! needs to be like $70-75 to really be effective here. If stacks were deeper I would like it better but I think everyone is too shallow to be effective. Youíre gonna be basically shoving flops with air given how shallow everyone is.

I kind of like flatting in this specific spot and just proceeding cautiously on Kxx or Qxx flops. If UTG is opening wide-ish then heís going to have some hands we dominate.
How can we steal when weíre first to act? Floating OOP / stealing pots oop is way harder from the SB. Thatís why a lot of players will 3b or fold their small blinds, barring pocket pairs to set-mine
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Old 06-29-2018, 04:54 PM   #10
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Re: Squeeze spot 1/2

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How can we steal when we’re first to act? Floating OOP / stealing pots oop is way harder from the SB. That’s why a lot of players will 3b or fold their small blinds, barring pocket pairs to set-mine
I thought we were big blind.

Steal I mean when UTG checks and one the MP/LP players bets, or even x back flop and we have some equity on the turn. UTG should be playing pretty fit-or-fold 4-way and the read on the other players is straightforward ABC.

We get perfect information before having to act ourselves via our relative position on the PFR.
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Old 06-29-2018, 05:45 PM   #11
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Re: Squeeze spot 1/2

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I thought we were big blind.

Steal I mean when UTG checks and one the MP/LP players bets, or even x back flop and we have some equity on the turn. UTG should be playing pretty fit-or-fold 4-way and the read on the other players is straightforward ABC.

We get perfect information before having to act ourselves via our relative position on the PFR.
In the BB, I think defending is marginally better because we're getting very slightly better odds and are closing the action (we can never get squeezed off our hand here). I still prefer folding KQo from the BB vs a 6x open from UTG and 2 callers though. Definitely flatting KQs.

ime playing from the BB, it's very hard to bluff multiway and we get bluffed off the best hand a lot from the IP players and cant realize a lot of our equity.
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Old 06-29-2018, 05:56 PM   #12
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Re: Squeeze spot 1/2

I like it, sized to 70, but only if UTG has really shown down wide opening ranges (eg QTs from EP). If UTG folds, I don't see field callers coming along with their sc's and small pp's.

If called though, you can't go crazy with TP b/c you can be value owning yourself.
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Old 06-29-2018, 06:05 PM   #13
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Re: Squeeze spot 1/2

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In the BB, I think defending is marginally better because we're getting very slightly better odds and are closing the action (we can never get squeezed off our hand here). I still prefer folding KQo from the BB vs a 6x open from UTG and 2 callers though. Definitely flatting KQs.

ime playing from the BB, it's very hard to bluff multiway and we get bluffed off the best hand a lot from the IP players and cant realize a lot of our equity.
Mostly agree. Knowing we are the SB now (also thought it was 1/3) I just fold pre.
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Old 06-29-2018, 08:46 PM   #14
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Re: Squeeze spot 1/2

ITT people say that something I make consistent profit with is something they hate.

KQs is a lot better to use than KQo simply due to its higher equity, and easier ability to realize that equity. The sizing is not bad, and will generate more folds than you'd think. When you size larger, you need more equity in the hand, and if called you don't have the edge in equity.
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Old 06-29-2018, 10:03 PM   #15
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Re: Squeeze spot 1/2

Pretty much always calling here and not so sure itís not a leak. If you 3bet this routinely itís bad and I just hate folding. Iím flatting and playing postflop poker but you need to find a lot of bluffs to make it better than folding.
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Old 06-30-2018, 12:33 AM   #16
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Re: Squeeze spot 1/2

It really depends how wide we think the UTG guy is raising, and if he has a fold button. If he's too wide, like raising suited connectors and small pairs wide, we can consider flatting, and I would likely save my squeezes for suited ace hands that have better equity against his calling range. Otherwise I probably fold this.

I agree with Calldown in that I think the sizing is actually OK and enough to scare people away, even though if UTG calls it can start the call chain. I think this is a good squeeze spot against a loose UTG raiser and a couple weak callers, I would just prefer a slightly different hand that can flop a bit better if called.
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Old 06-30-2018, 05:39 AM   #17
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Re: Squeeze spot 1/2

Fold. If UTG is actually OK he will have a strong range. Two tight players called behind. If you're gonna bluff, do it vs a weak range. OOP vs three strong ranges is suicide.

Agreed that flat calling is horrible. But I think squeezing is more horrible.
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Old 06-30-2018, 07:20 AM   #18
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Re: Squeeze spot 1/2

For those advocating the squeeze, esp with larger sizing - what's our plan otf? if we make it 70 and get 1 caller, we have to give him a strong range and there's now ~160 in the pot. Against button that's an SPR of < 1, against the others it's an spr of < 1.5. We're first to act and other than smashing the board, how happy are we to be shoving here really? Are we getting overpairs to fold on low flops? Is AQ ever folding TPTK? Is AK? Squeezing seems really spewy to me unless we think we have LOTS of FE, which, given reads, I'm not sure we do. Would love to hear from those advocating squeeze their reasons for thinking it's +EV.

FWIW, I can get behind a call (we have decent odds, and can look to play a cheap pot) or a fold here, but I just don't see the 3! being that profitable. Once we call, I think we lose our stack OTF a large amount of the time and kissing off a full stack to try and make $36 seems pretty bad to me.
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Old 06-30-2018, 07:33 AM   #19
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Re: Squeeze spot 1/2

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Originally Posted by DormantShark View Post
For those advocating the squeeze, esp with larger sizing - what's our plan otf?

Squeezing because our hand does not play well OOP multiway and we have blockers to very strong hands. OP also said V was opening wide which means he will have to dump enough of his OR range that makes this profitable (lots of dead $ as well).

Again, don't go crazy postflop as you can get value owned.
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Old 06-30-2018, 07:51 AM   #20
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Re: Squeeze spot 1/2

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Squeezing because our hand does not play well OOP multiway and we have blockers to very strong hands. OP also said V was opening wide which means he will have to dump enough of his OR range that makes this profitable (lots of dead $ as well).

Again, don't go crazy postflop as you can get value owned.
The first is a reason to fold. The second... maybe that's a reason to squeeze, but my point is that when we get called, we're OOP, lost, and with a hand that's probably dominated. So we're losing $70 a lot of the time.

And how exactly are we playing flop? Sure, not going crazy sounds great in theory, but what do we do on QT4r? We bet and he just gives up? Really? When he calls we're often behind and still have no idea where we're at. Or what if we whiff? Check / give up? There are just no good lines and we're playing bingo with a marginal hand OOP. No thanks. I just don't see a profitable line with a squeeze play here.

It's worth remembering that we have two more callers PF who are tight and passive. If that's true, they have AK and some big pairs in their flatting ranges. These types of players are the ones that shrug-call QQ on 983 or whatever boards, because they haven't been folding for the last 4 orbits to just give up with their premium pair. Sorry but I don't think squeeze is any good here. KQs maybe, but not KQo and not against 3 opponents, at least one of whom has us beat (probably more than one of them).
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Old 06-30-2018, 07:54 AM   #21
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Re: Squeeze spot 1/2

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Originally Posted by DormantShark View Post
The first is a reason to fold. The second... maybe that's a reason to squeeze, but my point is that when we get called, we're OOP, lost, and with a hand that's probably dominated. So we're losing $70 a lot of the time.

And how exactly are we playing flop? Sure, not going crazy sounds great in theory, but what do we do on QT4r? We bet and he just gives up? Really? When he calls we're often behind and still have no idea where we're at. Or what if we whiff? Check / give up? There are just no good lines and we're playing bingo with a marginal hand OOP. No thanks. I just don't see a profitable line with a squeeze play here.

It's worth remembering that we have two more callers PF who are tight and passive. If that's true, they have AK and some big pairs in their flatting ranges. These types of players are the ones that shrug-call QQ on 983 or whatever boards, because they haven't been folding for the last 4 orbits to just give up with their premium pair. Sorry but I don't think squeeze is any good here. KQs maybe, but not KQo and not against 3 opponents, at least one of whom has us beat (probably more than one of them).

KQs is so much better? Why because you can flop a backdoor flush draw and barrel your opponent off their STRONG range at these stack sizes? Come on man.

UTG will only continue with JJ+ and if he is opening wide then we can expect folds a lot of the time (eg 77-TT, AJ, AT = all folding)


3bet>>>>fold>>>>>>>>>>>>call
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Old 06-30-2018, 12:17 PM   #22
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Re: Squeeze spot 1/2

By calling pre we have to play the hand oop from the worst position with 3 players behind which makes it hard to win the hand unless we hit the board really good.
I like sqeezing over folding over calling because it gives us the opportunity to represent a strong range and to win the pot immediately preflop.
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Old 06-30-2018, 01:58 PM   #23
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Re: Squeeze spot 1/2

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Originally Posted by DormantShark View Post
For those advocating the squeeze, esp with larger sizing - what's our plan otf? if we make it 70 and get 1 caller, we have to give him a strong range and there's now ~160 in the pot. Against button that's an SPR of < 1, against the others it's an spr of < 1.5. We're first to act and other than smashing the board, how happy are we to be shoving here really? Are we getting overpairs to fold on low flops? Is AQ ever folding TPTK? Is AK? Squeezing seems really spewy to me unless we think we have LOTS of FE, which, given reads, I'm not sure we do. Would love to hear from those advocating squeeze their reasons for thinking it's +EV.

FWIW, I can get behind a call (we have decent odds, and can look to play a cheap pot) or a fold here, but I just don't see the 3! being that profitable. Once we call, I think we lose our stack OTF a large amount of the time and kissing off a full stack to try and make $36 seems pretty bad to me.
The plan is generally to cbet any flop that is not ace high. This isn't a hand like AK where you can check & still have showdown value, this has to be a bet nearly always. If you hit top pair you kinda have to just go with the the hand, bet flop & jam turn, but that's fine imo. Note however that I don't advocate the bigger size, and this depends on reads.

A call from sb with KQo is poor imo. The big blind will come along too often, taking a 5 way pot oop with a hand that isn't great multi-way. Bb can also just wake up with a big hand occasionally. Calling from bb is a lot better, but I still don't love it.
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Old 06-30-2018, 10:59 PM   #24
moxiepilot
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Re: Squeeze spot 1/2

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Originally Posted by bachegabrielsen View Post
9-handed 1$/2$



Is this squeeze too loose? Thinking of flatting hands like KQs


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Grunch. Yeah this squeeze is too loose. Itís not going to play well out of position and your 3! sizing is too low.
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