Hi all,

Played a session last Saturday and need to know everyone's thoughts on this squeeze play I attempted.

I'm seen as a winning play and respected at the table. Playing pretty tight this session.

V: is newer to the table probably close to 80 years old. Playing around 20% of hands and min raising a ton.

Hero is in the SB with QJdd. Everyone limps to me and I raise to 27. V is in the BB and just calls all other folds. Flop is 2 7 8 rainbow. I check he fires 30.

Is my squeeze profitable? Gave up on the flop but want to know everyone's thoughts on this

Need to know stakes and stack sizes for a real answer. In general I think this sort of play probably works enough to be profitable, but I'm not sure why we are doing it with a hand like this. I love playing JQs multiway. If we are going to turn a hand into a bluff to punish limpers I'd rather do it with a trash hand and I'd rather do it from the button than SB.

So maybe profitable, definitely not optimal. The additional info requested will help us calibrate that accordingly.

Sorry about that. It is 1/3 stacks go from 140-400 I have around 260. V has around 160

Absent a dynamic where people are limping hands like AK/AA/KK I definitely think this is profitable. However, this is not how you beat LLSNL and this is pretty marginal/high variance.

You played flop right but the trickier flops are when one limper calls you, you have no idea what his range is, and you are almost obligated to put in a c bet. Obviously BB here is super strong so you can easily give up.

I think it's important to note this is not a squeeze play. A squeeze is when a loose player raises and we 3! because other players won't likely call a 3! cold and the original raiser is weak.

In this case, we are attempting a bluff I guess vs. 9 players which isn't great. In reality it's probably an oversized value-raise OOP which may be slightly profitable still.

I think if we are going to raise for value I'd go smaller but I'm happy to just flat and take a great multiway hand to the flop.

If everyone limped, you are risking $27 to win somewhere around $27 so everyone has to fold 1/2 the time to break even. Forget about what happens post flop for a second.

Will everyone fold 1/2 the time? I would say probably not. So I wouldnt make that move especially with QJs which is one of the best hands to play 9-10 ways. You also dont get too many playable hands in the SB which is another reason I dont like the move.

If you've seen a lot of limp/folding going on, try that play once in a blue moon with a total garbage hand and just promise yourself you will never CBet if called. I would like that better.

Your play isnt horrible though.

Why are we never c betting? That sounds terrible. We are repping a huge hand out of SB. The kind of people who limp/call a 9x raise are the same people who will fold flop if they don't hit top pair or better. Giving up against these players makes no sense.

Obviously it depends on who call. In this particular instance we got cold called from BB so we need to give up 100%.

You have a really playable hand in a multi way pot, just make a standard raise, maybe a little larger than normal since there's already a bunch of limps and play the hand... I laughed out loud when you started by asking if "this squeeze is profitable" and the next thing you said was "80 year old man" lmao. Thankfully he was in the bb so it was possible he was folding but if he put money in the pot aside from the blinds he's never folding. At least you're never trying to squeeze after a old man put money in the pot unless of course you have reason to believe otherwise.

DO NOT SQUEEZE OUT LIMPS
Although it may work sometimes it's not going to be profitable enough to justify doing it. When looking for good squeeze spots, look for an aggressive player or just someone that is opening wide in the given position and has been called in 2 or so spots behind. Good example would be - younger loose player opens to 15 in hj, co and btn call, we are in the small blind and squeeze to 105.... Notice how the sizing is big? People like to defend their opens too much in these games so if you're going to make a squeeze you need to ****ing blast it.

Meh, it's a fact that we're going to lose money from the blinds. I'd prefer to do it in small doses. Plus QJs can flop great against hands that would limp but possibly not call a large raise. I probably complete and the check fold on the flop as our equity is marginal.




You aren't describing a squeeze either. A squeeze is when:

Player A bets (a loose player)
Player B calls (possibly more calls from Players C-whatever)
Player X 3!

Player X is "squeezing" the initial raiser because Player A is loose, so the chances they have a strong hand are small. Player B knows that Player A is loose and will tend to have a weak hand also because they did not raise Player A, so they fold too.

Right. Yes I mispoke.

That's not a squeeze, it's a value raise, but I'd still go smaller like $15-20. Is there a diamond on the flop? If so, bet. If not, probably cbet 3/4 pot and see what develops. Barrel T/J/Q/K/A turns, maybe give up if turn is a total brick. It depends.

Please don't follow this terrible advice. Either this poster is trying to make his competition so bad that he can benefit from it, or he himself is that bad (and judging from some of his recent hand histories, it's likely the latter).

If you are ever going to raise and always give up otf if called, that in itself is horrible. You will never flop a hand enough to nearly make it profitable. That is something a very bad fish might consider.

When you raise pre, your expectations should never be to fold everyone out. As a matter of fact you want one or two callers every time. If you were doing it to fold everyone out and c/f the flop, just limp pre. You should also expect to flop air and have a plan for three streets post flop. It's should hardly ever be to c/f the flop.

I think what Mike suggested can be optimal in certain weak tight games. There are players out there that limp in 75% of the time, and they do it with hands as strong as QQ. If they call your raise then you know you are crushed and would be lighting money on fire if you barrel after the flop. These same players will fold a ton of the time preflop, even incorrecty folding smaller pocket pairs as well as hands like AJ, KQ, etc because they are scared of the large raise size regardless of how wide your range is.

But there are tons of games, especially deeper stacked where are bets have more leverage, where we can crush loose players that will call large sized raises pre and give up on the flop without top pair or better. Cbetting these players is printing money.

I'd prolly make a standard raise to 15ish, for value. Then in both scenarios (as played and if the raise pre was to 15 I would check fold this flop. As played bb has a strong hand that I wouldn't try to bluff. Sometimes you don't flop well and need to give up, nothing wrong with that


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Played fine. Assuming we are 9 handed sizing is fine. I like the c/f on the flop too. We're cbetting a lot of flops but our range whiffs this one and we're out of position. Fine to give up here.

Some of the time you are collecting the limps and some of the time you are taking it down post. Should be plenty +ev overall.

If Villain is a button clicker with a fold button, x/jam the flop should've been a consideration. Not usually the recommended line against 80yos tho. x/f probably best, but SPR under 2, so depends.

Pre, I'd prefer an ace in my hand to gobble up the limps. Some nice EV with a call that you've got to eclipse for raise to be better.

Relax people. I didnt say I would always give up on the flop when I 3 bet. I was just showing that IF you never C-bet on the flop, you have to take it down preflop 1/2 the time for the play to be profitable in and of itself

I also suggested that 3 betting with total garbage once in a blue moon but never betting the flop when called would be better than 3 betting here with QJs.

You guys either misinterpreted what I meant or I did a horrible job of explaining it.

You dont agree with the way I play the hands I post. I win more than you. Figure it out, Sir.

I read so many HHs here and see the advice given and then all of the sudden I stop wondering why my win rate is so high. The advice here (other than 4-5 people) is so bad its laughable.....and I literally do laugh out loud sometimes.

there are a lot of poker book authors that would disagree with bolded. There are certainly times we can raise specifically as a bluff and want zero callers. Where you got the notion that, as a PFR, we want 1-2 callers always I have no idea and I would be interested to see where this thought comes from.

The bolded is still wrong. What I think you mean is that if we assume we always open-fold the flop then the bet needs to work 50% of the time to breakeven. That's true, but not particularly relevant. QJs will always have pretty reasonable equity against a limp-calling range, though is probably doing a little worse against an 80 y.o.'s cold calling range from the BB. Hard to imagine a situation where we don't have at least 40% equity, since I'd suspect when we get called a lot of times we're up against a pocket pair less than JJ. For instance, I gave BB a 20% range and removed AA and KK (assuming those are 3-bet) and we have 45.5% equity.

I can get behind a limp behind or raise depending almost entirely on the table. If there was a lot of limp/folding going on and I thought I could usually get it head's up and sometimes take down all the limps without a flop, think raising and c-betting most of the time is the better play. If it would generally go multi-way, I'm just calling and seeing a flop with a nice, speculative hand and trying to get money in post-flop if I hit. In my usual game, I'm often seeing a multi-way pot even if I raise big, so I would just limp QJs here.

AP, flop is a bad one both for our actual hand and for us to try to represent a big hand. If there's no heart on the board I'm probably check/folding, more likely to c-bet if there's one heart out there.

When you say "the bet needs to work 50% of the time", are you talking about the preflop reraise? That's not a bet, its a raise, but I think that's what you meant.

We are discussing 2 different things.

1) Will a preflop 3 bet be profitable?
2) Is it a good idea to do it?

The 3 bet is profitable all by itself if everyone folds more than 50% of the time which is what I was originally talking about. Whether or not hero can play the hand profitably OOP after a 3 bet is a whole different scenario and its a lot more complicated. I wouldnt try it personally because the hand plays pretty well multiway. If I thought everyone had a weak hand..or was weak tight in general, I would rather 3 bet with a total garbage hand. Even then I wouldnt do it. Now if there was a 3BB raise and 5 callers, I might be more interested.

We don't make money by taking down limped bets. We make money when we force the opponent to hit the flop, and they either fold to a cbet, a turnbet, or a river jam, depending on where we range them, our hand and equity and many other factors.

I don't believe that books alone can beat today's live games, anyway.


How do you know what my win rate is, you don't know me.

I know what mine is which is all I need to know to make that statement.

It must be fun to never post your own HHs and just sit back and criticize other peoples strategy, huh? I get criticized and berated at the tables all the time also....by plenty of people as I take their money.

Except it isn't a one or the other situation, we certainly do make money by the way you said, but taking down a few limps preflop 2-3 times a session when we want no callers will drastically change a winrate. The proof is obvious with online players and the battle for just the small and big blinds. Taking them down from CO or BTN is huge. Once EP limpers are added into the equation, it's a feast

Cue lol online

Still wrong in two ways. First (and less importantly) the hand at question isn't a 3-bet, he's just opening an unlimped pot from the SB. More importantly, you cannot ignore post-flop when deciding whether a bet or 3-bet pre-flop is profitable. The value of a bet pre is the combination of the immediate fold equity plus the post-flop equity/FE in the now larger pot.

As a simple example, say you raise pre and 100% of the time are getting called, but the caller's range is well behind yours. You have no FE but clearly the raise is immediately profitable because the caller is putting money in bad.

I'm pretty sure you know all this, but in evaluating the hand at issue I don't think it's helpful to ask whether we're going to get folds 50% of the time and evaluate raising on that basis. There's so much more nuance here.