I'm assuming that most decisions post flop other than folding will be -ev.

PP's fine. Axs and SC's not so fine. Too few good situations and way too many marginal/easy fold situations. You're basically taxing yourself an extra dollar to play the orbit.

You throw suited aces into the muck when completing the SB too? Especially in a family pot? I'm sorry but no, you are just wrong. I will not be debating this any further.

Then you are a fool for not even considering it. Blind ranges are chronically too wide. What do you hope to flop?

the nut flush/two pair. LOL whats your range for completing in a multiway limped pot? JJ+,AK??

My completing range is incredibly narrow. It's either raise or fold and my raising range is pretty narrow too.

pot odds tho

1. PF – you decide it's a good idea to bloat the pot while OOP with suited connectors. You already had the best situation you could hope for with this hand in the small blind– a multiway limped pot. Call the buck and if you hit the flop great if not then fold and on to next hand. Yes total spew.

2. He's re-raising because your table image is loose. He thinks isolating you with his range is +EV and from the way it looks he's right. Instead of switching gears and tightening up against him you double down on the loose play. So yeah it's spew because you failed to adjust.

3. Flop. Shouldn't have gotten yourself into this situation in the first place. That being said, if you call the $50 you might as well shove to get some FE. If you where invested for a dollar instead of $35 this would be an easy lay down in an unraised multi-way pot. So yeah it's still spew.

In a typical 1-2 game, pots get limped 4-6 ways regularly. Not only do a majority of the donks play face up, but they all think that you play the way they do. Say you have 2-7o in a 4 way limped pot and the flop comes 22A. You can actually get away with betting 3 streets of value because the vils think 'If I had a 2 I would slow play it. He can't have a 2, so the AK AQ Ax that I limped with in LP must have him outkicked. OMGz i'm going to take all of his money and im so good for knowing that he doesn't have a 2.'

This makes sense at tables full of good players. At 1/2 live, you're missing a lot of easy money by folding prospective hands. Assuming you're not spewing postflop, you'll make WAY more than 0.5bb on average from seeing 7-way flops with 78s. A ton of players don't know how to price draws out correctly, and are far too willing to stack off with top pair.

Apparently spikeraw does not understand the concept behind expected value and pot odds. I dont care if you got misdealt "rules to stud poker" with your other hole card. If you are being given 1,000,000:1 you call. Seems like he would disagree. It doesnt really matter. He is both factually and mathematically incorrect and uninterested in learning why. It's just more money for us not having to contend with players like him I guess.

We are completing pretty much everything in our hand besides 27,28, and 38, and I'm not even sure if we aren't supposed to be completing those, and getting away from everything unless we flop gin. I really don't understand what spikeraw is getting at. I'm trying to delve into it to see if there is something I am missing, but I keep coming up blank. I mean, I can't see folding 78s at a 2/5 game in the sb after 4 limpers either. Maybe 5/10? Maybe he's used to playing high-stakes where there's only maybe 1 limper and 1 raiser a hand? Maybe he's used to playing 5/10 10/25 and sb's usually don't complete unless they have top 15% hand? I don't know. Maybe he posted in the wrong thread.

He has a preconceived notion that the SB sucks and you dont always flop a big hand with 78s. This is fine, it's true. What he fails to realize is that if the odds of drawing a card that wins the pot are numerically higher than the pot odds, the call has a positive expectation. On average, you win a portion of the pot that is greater than the cost of the call. We can turn our hand face up and still make the call. This isnt even considering how poorly our opponents might play.

So then why not 4-bet?

First raise and call of 3 bet = spew

Post is standard as once you drove off the cliff, you have no choice but go for the ride.

Whelp, it's official, I have a hole in my game.

You must be trolling surely. Please tell me you are just trying to piss people off and get reactions from people.

I'm simply pointing out a major leak that most 1/2 players have. Not only do they not realize it, but they defend the leak. Completing the sb even with hands like SC's is not going to show a profit for most players. It is common to overestimate the importance of preflop pot odds (massively overestimate) and underestimate the value of post flop implied and reverse implied odds. You don't want to see a flush out there. Since you're OOP to the entire table, the idea of getting away cheaply from your marginal flops (really the best you can usually hope for is a marginal flop) goes out the window. I'd offer that those of you who seem to have responded emotionally to my premise have no proof whatsoever that you're actually more profitable (less unprofitable) by completing the sb then you would be by just folding everything but big raising hands. This is not a new concept. Many well respected posters will back me up on this.

In this particular situation, the entire table limps. I might even consider completing, but look at the hero in this situation. Do we really trust him not to spew off his stack? No. And to be honest I don't really trust any of you others not to as well.

Thanks for all the opinions. I agree I misplayed it and its good to hear a few opinions on why and how to do better. I should have adjusted my game based on how he was playing me by either not raising or 4 betting him. Either one would have been better than what I did.

Do you see why this isn't a good counter argument?

pre is spew, as played u have to gii flop

4b

about the only thing you're right about is that perhaps the OP should not complete since he (probably) plays badly postflop

for anybody not awful at poker, folding 78s here in the SB (and many worse hands, too) would be godawful. like, really, really bad

i can tell spikeraw is a nit because he views putting in money as "taxing yourself to play the orbit"

The reason you're getting emotional responses is because you are polluting the forum with false information. Just flat out false, wrong, & incorrect. You might as well be saying a straight beats a flush. Which is why you have been accused of borderline trolling, because it's inconceivable someone could be so misinformed about the EV of completing the SB in a 9 way limped pot with 78s.

Can't believe this is even a debate lol. It's one thing to play nitty but dang. Only way I fold for $1 here is if the BB is super Aggro and constantly raises when limped to and even then I prob call $1