anyone who wears a hoodie and sunglasses at 1/2, well i don't know who your trying to hide tells from because 95% of players cannot read anyoneone (even if they think they can).
also I don't know how u bumhunt at 1/2 because every table u sit at i think you'll be lucky to find 1 or 2 decent players(if any), everyone else is a fish. just learn their tendencies/ bet sizing ect and 1/2 is easy money. I'm re - remembering this after black friday, sometimes i just wish i took my roll offline ages ago

No. You like to wear a hoodie bc youre a douche ;-)

Everyone hates you, just so ya know

This is worded poorly. Most limit games are labeled by their bet sizes, not their blinds, while NL games are labeled by their blinds.

A 1/2 NL game has a small blind of $1 and a $2 big blind.

A 20/40 game has a small blind of $10 and a $20 big blind, but bet sizes of $20 preflop and on the flop and $40 on the turn and river. This is also called a 20 game.

So the 80 game above is better called 80/160 with the $40 small blind and $80 big blind.

I have just started playing live and have a question on short stacked cash games. I was pretty successful online mtt player at micro/low stakes with a 95% roi over 4k+ mtts/180s. Im a husband/father of 3 with a full time job (I do not use irl money for poker) and have put together an $1100 live roll with another $1k there if needed. I am from Portland OR, and for those not familiar with poker in Portland we have a city code where poker rooms aka "social clubs" (not casinos) are not allowed to charge rake. Therefore all of these rooms charge a $5-$10 fee per day to play mtts/cash games. The cash games are referred to as "tournament cash games" with a fixed blind, and you must cash out all $$ in front of you every 1-1.5 hours, of which you can then just buy in for min-max amount allowed. Dealers are volunteers and work for "donations".

The problem with the all the games in town though is they are 1/2 with a $100 max buy in which doesnt leave much room post flop. I tried out one of these games last week and managed to run up to 200bbs but i think i am clearly not rolled for this. I played a 20r mtt today which i felt much more comfortable in, but all of the <$70 mtts in town have terrible structures and not worth the volume i would get in imo. The closest casino to me with 1/2nl+ is a 90 min. drive with traffic.

I however, did find what it think is a good .5/1 NL game with a $200 max buy in that runs 5 nights a week, and the night i played only 2 players even came close to having a clue. Table was full after about 20 min and waitlist there shortly after. So I guess my questions are:

-your thoughts on the 1/2nl 50bb games

-buying in for 100bbs in the .5/1nl game (feel like im losing value not buying in for 200bbs)

-thoughts on the $10-$60 (mostly all rebuys) mtts with small fields and bad structures

-my $1100 roll and the .5/1nl game buying in for 100bbs

-at what point if any would my roll suffice playing the 50bb 1/2nl in town, or figuring gas/food/time/rake traveling to the casino. i cant imagine the upside of traveling to the casino other than playing higher than 1/2


-will anything other than experience/practice/bringing the collar of my coat with my thumb up to my neck hide my jugular from pulsating like crazy when i have monster/air , i have been trying to be as social as possible like everything i have read lately on live poker but i find it very hard to follow action and pay attention with all the surroundings aka im probably the nit....

One thing I've thought about for ages but never could really decide on, that I'm interested in other people's input on:

- I'd actually like to wear a hoodie and sunglasses to play because I feel like sometimes people may be able to see where I am looking during the hand (here I mean simple things like I am actually watching them look at their cards preflop, watching their reaction on the flop as opposed to the flop). Obviously the hoodie masks any facial reaction I don't control.

The problem is that I'm a regular in the cardroom to begin with and crush the stakes as is, and I'm actually really friendly at the table. I don't think I can come off as friendly going the hoodie/sunglasses route. So it seems like it's worth it to just play without them - to stay in the good books of the bad players.

I'd love to hear other people's thoughts about this.

Youre vastly overestimating how much attention your typical llnl opponents are paying to what youre doing.

I've been a winning live player for a couple of years (1/2 more than 2/5 where I'm still taking my shots) but only just learned how to win online in the last 6 months because I was trying to play live style online (disastrously).


For me the summary is to aim to win fewer, bigger pots. Within this, the two best pieces of advice in terms of the differences are....

1. aim to see a lot more cheap and cheapish flops live with marginal hands such as SCs, suited one gappers and even unsuited connectors, as well as all suited aces and almost always suited kings. In position, I'm always flat calling with these hands and if it's a small raise with lots of callers already and I'm near button, I'm always calling up to 4 or even 5 bb raises. It's just EV to do so in these games

2. villains rarely fold top pair or even middle pair, so betting post flop is about increasing the pot size when you are very strong, as opposed to persuading villains to fold. Bluffs are less effective, so flip your online behaviour around and only go hard with top two and above. Villains will call you down with the rankest hands

MB, I think the .5/$1 game is the way to go, and I'd not worry about buying in deep. As described, it won't be too hard for you to get deep. I'd be comfortable at $1/2 with a $2K roll, but the short buy-ins nullify a lot of your advantages, and the swings are generally worse (ime) in short-stack poker.

+1, not to mention overestimating the amount of information people can glean from where you are looking even if they do pay attention.

I cannot agree strongly enough with the need to be NICE to your opponents. I was watching one PL Omaha table last week where there was this one crazy drunk all in blind preflop kind of player. After suffering a bad beat to this dream opponent, a player (presumbly an internet player) said something like "play you HU?" Such a mild insult, but it completely set the drunk guy off and he had to be escorted out by security. Of course, the game broke up immediately after the giant fish was taken away. Grats to that player on costing himself hundreds of dollars.

I think the smaller games are getting a lot tougher as a lot of former online regs don't have the roll to play anything else. So the good old flat any raise spike 2 pair + and stack fish doesn't work anymore.

I played at Commerce the other day and it was literally reg-infested (or what it looked like it -- young guys wearing hoodies and glasses playing TAG style.)

Hi I just started playing live NL and I can't stop winning. Am I special?

No just a victim of variance.

Meh. Yes more and more knowledgeable players are going to be sitting. But just because someone is a regular in the game, knowledgeable, skilled, played 10m hands OL, etc, etc... a) doesn't make them good b) doesn't mean they are paying attention c) would know what to do if they were paying attention d) get a chance with the extremely slow pace of exploit anything they did happen to pay attention to.

When people start talking about having to be tricky or balancing play at LLSNL games I just laugh. Seriously even if everyone at the table is paying attention and knows what to do about what they saw, they have to have a chance to put it into play. With the number of LLSNL games in most areas the chances that you are going to be playing with the same person in any given game is about 10%.

So you are not one of those that gets to see new faces all the time, and are stuck with same group of players day in and day out. Assuming they are paying attention and know what to do about it (huge assumption BTW). Then sure balance your play, mix it up. Pay attention to your perceived image and use it to your advantage when you get HU with them. And focus at lot of your effort on finding new hunting grounds.

I think some people in this thread are scared of the image of an internet player at their game.

Its just an image fellas, are they really that intimidating at commerce? Maybe to you but not me. Most internet players suck untill you get to 1000NL. Everyone else is just meh and learning the game like you. Don't give respect if its not earned.

Balance is not needed, unless most raised pots are HU, or everyone is playing like they need to make rent money.

Good post OP

I used to play live a lot and got used to that play. Then I moved to a state with no live play and stuck to online play. Now with the online ban Im back to live player and the bad players are crushing me by underthinking me.

Plays like 6 limpers I raise, UTG cold calls (allowing 5 other limpers to potentially come in) and he has KK.

Players NOT betting their 2 overs + FD on the flop after a preflop raise.

Players cold calling rediculous 3 bets with hands like 77 and I get shoved on by a 3rd party with an even worse hand and I fold the best hand.

People slowplaying sets on a double draw 6 way pot.

People simply calling with nut flushes when there are 4 people in the pot and there are bets and raises in front of them and its OBVIOUS someone has a set.

Not to mention the short stacks thinking like this is an SNG and jamming 66 over my AK and the rake beats both of us.

Players overvaluing their hands and I end up folding the best hand betting TT into many players in a pot where its likely someone has an overpair or a set to their hand and I end up folding the best of it. ARG!

I almost feel I can toss most of my theory play out the window. My body language reads seem to be right 90% of the time for these players wanting to override my math and theory skills but I follow the math and end up kicking myself in the ass.

Im making the adjustment at my local casino seeing the patterns of the plays. Its weirder than it was several years ago and I went from east to west coast (passive east coast to aggro west coast). People limp cold call AA/KK even in a multiway pot, people slooooowplay small flushes to the river, people sloooowplay sets to the river on 2x draw boards.

So any suggestions? I dont want to lose 10 BIs before I come to the realization of the play. If I stuck to my reads instead of my theory I would have been up ~$120 for 15 hours play but instead Im down $640. Losing 6 of 7 races my last 4 sessions really killed me too.

If you're worried about only 10BIs I feel whatever sample size you are working off is way too small to be coming to any conclusions just yet.
But yea, live players are generally bad. Adjust accordingly and enjoy.

Exactly

Players at this level are RARELY "thinking" players, more often than not they are simply playing for fun/enjoyment/a good story to tell. They'll make hero calls with K2os or draw to inside straights with horrible odds just because they feel they can win. You cannot apply theory to players who are ignorant of it, because they simply do not "listen". They just play.

My advice to you is to tighten up and play really nitty ABC poker. Stop thinking of theory and just execute the boring, safe plays. See pots for cheap. Use suited connectors wisely. Rarely, rarely bluff. Once you get to 5/10, you will find that theory starts to become useful again.

Pretty much this. I will say that if you can't adjust to these bad players then you have no shot moving up in stakes. Its like when people say they would rather play with better players since they are easier to play against. Huh?

Play ABC...you will have to make some thinnish calls at times. But when you have big hand need to value bet, value bet, value bet.

i've been suffering with the same dilemna and posted a thread called "exploitable tendancies/spots $1/$2 NL" a couple days ago. There were some insightful respones and advice. Mostly to play abc poker and value bet relentlessly. The play is just so bad at this level that the best way to exploit your opponents is just to play like a nit. sucks I know.

Yup thats what I did. Originally I played my usual style, got clobbered but not because I paid them off but because I was playing too many hands the 1st couple sessions. Last night I REALLY tightened up. The rake doesnt allow for blind stealing. its 1(BUT)-1(SB)-2(BB) blinds $4 limps, $6 rake if the flop comes. so I limp lots of hands on the button like 76o or Q9s just to see if I hit because its $3 to call and I have $1 in the pot already.

Im raising $5 because really there is no reason to raise more? They call everything anyways.
My standards are 22+, AQs(maybe), AK UTG
MP depends on whos behind, I add a few more hands.
CO/BUT I just dont steal. I limp a lot.

I watch for telegraphed folds to my left and deduct those positions from my starting hands.

If I went with my gut I would be up. Its funny I am far better now due to online play and coaching than I was 4 years ago playing live. 4 years ago live I relied on simple odds, hand reading 50% and my tells 50% for every hand I played. Since online its been odds, hand reading 90%, tells 10%. But now I gotta start shifting back. These guys simply make no sense but it seems they wear their cards on their foreheads faceup if I just body language read. Sometimes I dont even have to look at the flop.

Im noticing some standards in my casino. Limp call AA/KK with 4 people between the AA/KK and myself. Not raising strong hands. Way WAY underbetting strong hands just to get a call. Im using this tactic myself in various situations. 1/2 the time players limp AK. They never raise AK in EP?!?!?!

Its going to take 2-3 more sessions to readjust.

Thanks for the reality check. Im going this weekend again and using my superior body language reading skills to get them. I feel its my best trait for live. I study body language quite a bit (a good dozen books and training).

One more thing do you all recommend limping behind or raising hands like TT, 99, 88, KQs when in position? While iso-raising works well with these hands, if you get 1 caller, it sucks when you do and get 3 callers in a bloated pot with a medium hand. Im starting to lean toward limping in position and playing that hand at face value.

I notice in limped pots these guys chase far more with ridiculous draws or "I got an over and 2 backdoors I call" than in a raised pot.

Also do you use pot sweeteners? For example 6 limpers you got 66 on the button you min raise to build a pot and get a free turn card for yourself and your set. Like in a 1/2 game I would raise to $8-$10 which yields 20:1 for me and lets me look at the turn for free usually.

Ha, i was sweating a friend/student in a 2-5 at Aria yesterday and he 3 bet a 3x open from utg+2 in utg+3 spot with KJs. Opener was opening a ton etc.

flop Jxx 2 suits

Bottom line, villain CR flop (but min), bet turn flush card, bet river.

My student read it perfectly, but the point is that the villain (who i did not recognize) CR flop, bet turn, shove river with a flopped low gutshot (86) bluffing all the way.

A year ago I about never saw this at a 2-5 table. The new age of poker is evolving in live cardrooms quicker than I even thought.

Unfortunately, such players are going to be an evolutionary dead end like the Neanderthals in LLSNL. The river play was pure spew on his part.