great discussion. I'll be playing in a casino this weekend for the first time in several years, and I've got about 100,000 hands of online microstakes cash behind me now.

Looking for advice regarding SPRs, which shrink down drastically in live games where 5x-10x preflop raises are not uncommon. Do you just toss out your your SCs and small PPs? If an opponent makes it $20 to go and both you and he are sitting on $200 in a 1/2 game, it seems like my hand selection should be cut way down with an SPR of 5.

Also, these raises don't consistently scare people away, so you can end up 4 handed anyway with an $80 pot and $180 behind. Sounds like a capped game strategy to me. (wait to TPGK and get it in).

you will get bored.you wont play 300 hands per hour.people are slow and like to give speeches before they fold.at showdown losing player will check his/her hand 6 times to make sure it's no good.so dont loosen your game up.it's -EV for most people.

I felt compelled to reiterate something from the OP.

I noticed several new younger faces at the casino this weekend that I believe were likely online guys. There was a noticeable increase in atrocious behavior. Some of these guys (not all of course) were clearly frustrated and made the game bad for themselves.

I played some microstakes and online tourneys and at times this weekend I felt like I was reading the chat box on stars. At one point I couldn't help myself after a particularly douchey kid went off because my turned straight beat his runner runner 2 pair I commented that live poker is rigged... not exactly gracious on my part I know but I was really getting sick of this kids mouth.

Anyway, if you are a tilt prone online player moving to live, keep in mind it is simply bad for business to act childish and berate your opponents play. Percula's terms "Humble" and "gracious" are excellent words to keep in mind. If you strive for this it will enhance your bottom line and make the game better for everyone.

I play tight anyway - I'm not talking about loosening up because I'm bored. I play a fair amount live - at least once per week in various home games and local tourneys, so I'm not worried about that part of the switch from online to live. I'm specifically wondering about hand selection as it relates to the SPRs caused by typical casino preflop raise sizes.

Example - calling on the button with 78s against an open raise of $16 in a 1/2 game vs. a player who you suspect has a strong range (looking for implied odds). Against a 3x raise, I do this all day. Against an 8x raise, I'm wondering if it's profitable.

Only if the game is playing relatively deep. If effective stacks are $200, I sadly muck the hand and move on against an 8BB raise. With those stacks, I would call 5BB (maybe 6) if 3 other players came along as well. If the table is bombing flops with large bets, I will often give the hand up against those raises as well. If the post flop bet sizing is poor, which is often the case, then my chances of getting the price to draw are much better, and SCs can be played for the 5BB raises profitably.

Yeah this is something I try to gauge early on at a table. Since many live players do not size bets very well in relation to the pot there can be opportunities to get in on multiway pots with drawing hands. Take note of who will bomb the flop in large multiway pots and who will bet $30 into $125.

I have been using the rule of thumb of 10x minimum "achieveable" effective stacks for set mining small PPs and 20x for SCs and adjust for eleventeen to teh flop situations. There has been some debate about these types of rules of thumb here but yeah if you are in short games relative to standard opening raise sizes you can go broke quick calling raises with speculative hands if you are not careful about picking your spots.

I know alot of people cold call like crazy live, but IMHO do not fall victim of doing it just because everybody else is doing it or because you are doing it just because it's "live poker". Unless you have a crazy read or very deep there is no point cold calling 78s for 3-4bb if it's going to be HU against someone you know has QQ, AQ+. Now if your thought process is if you call 78s HU initially and all the other limpers/blinds will undoubtedly call making it a 4 way pot then it's probably fine. Last table I played at played almost exactly like a 50NL table online, people would not cold call, respected PF raises. But most of the time you can get away with it because you know you'll be in at least 4-way pots.

great posts... am i a douche b/c i like to wear a hoodie? i ditched the shades a while back b/c it just looks so bad in 1/2.

i would like to see a strictly 1/2 live casino thread...

i'm trying to go every SAT/SUN and bumhunt, does anyone have any thoughts on going weekdays??

I have a few questions. I used to be a winning reg at $100NL (1.5 PTBB/100), playing around 1200 hands an hour. I've transitioned to live play since Black Friday.

I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong but it seems every session that I put in, I'm losing. Since I can't really keep track of my hands, but only my hours I'm starting to doubt by game and possibly my physical tells.

Should I just note down every hand? Should I stop playing if I reach 300 BBs? I've done that a few times and every time I ended up losing the whole stack ... online I would just leave the table and reload 100 BBs when I reached 300 BBs ... I don't suppose I can do that at a casino right?

Could be physical tells, but is more likely the adjustment to playing in a different environment against a very different type of player. You are facing opponents taking a lot of non-standard lines, and you are probably playing pots that are more bloated pre than you are used to ever seeing online.

If you are having trouble playing deep, by all means rack up. You usually cannot immediately rebuy for 100 BBs, so take a break, get a bite to eat, and come back to the tables after an hour. There is nothing wrong with playing within YOUR comfort zone.

I would be fine playing online versus these opponents. I'm fine playing with a 100 BBs stack. The problems start when I'm 300 BBs deep and usually it's against mostly regs (not necessarily good regs) who either just don't fold TPnK against my flop and/or turn raises, or against my 3 barrels, so I've become unsure of myself and my lines.

Also since most of my money is stuck online like everyone else, I'm having some BR issues, since I'm already about $1500 down.

So adjust your lines. If they don't fold weak hands to 3 barrels, then don't 3 barrel. If they play straight forward and badly, don't take tricky lines on them.

You know what a bad reg in live play loves more than pulling off a bluff? Picking one off. They live for it. Many would rather pay off a better hand 90% of the time rather than fold to a bluff the other 10%.

These players will NOT adjust to you - you have to adjust and exploit them.

i'm sure there are a lot of poker tracking apps for iphone, i use poker life lite for my blackberry, it's free and just tracks how long i play, net, winnings per hour, hours logged, etc... it also has a comment section where i write hands that i played and can review them later with friends or in my mind.

it's hard to play deep when the money matters. i always earn more when i play for a couple hours, double up, take a walk... rinse repeat, always buying in for 100bb.

Ya problem is the table selection for 2/3 at the local casino is limited. If I stand up I will usually have to wait a long time before being able to sit down again.

If you really are concerned about physical tells, you might want to try and play the same table as a friend for a couple hours and specifically ask him for observations if that's a possibility.

As for the hands, I notate only key hands that I think I might want to post here or discuss with a friend later... Big pots lost or really tough spots that I think I should review later. I do this either between hands or on break I make shorthand notes in my phone's notepad. Approx. Eff stacks, board, holecards and street by street action.I think it's more important to spend time at the table paying attention to villains than transcribing every hand.

Also finding a fellow 2+2er that frequents your casino and striking up a friendship can be helpful.

PS: for traking results I use Poker Journal for the iPhone. It costs like $12 or something but it's great imo. I often eat dinner at the Casino so sometimes I will review my session then. I use poker cruncher on the iPhone for stoving ranges.

You are a winning 100NL reg online and playing 1/2? It's going to be a big adjustment, but an easy one. Just realize you literally have almost no FE. I would not 2x barrell w/out good equity or for value ever unless it's against a reg who you know can fold. It doesn't really matter majority of the time if you play like your hand is face up at 1/2 as I'm sure you've learned. I don't think physical tells are much of an issue as most ppl make them out to be unless you are shaking really bad when betting or something.

I'm playing 2/3 because of BR management. I've watched a few games of 5/10 and the game plays like 25NL online, so I'm sure I would be able to beat it (and probably even higher) but because of variance I'm stuck at 2/3 (and I'm not doing good either.)

This is one of your biggest leak. In no way does 5/10 run like 25nl other than superficially. In most places, 5/10 is an uncapped game. That means the starting stacks are often 200BB or more. You're playing way deeper than 25nl online.

In addition, the game is typically not raked, but there is a time charge. Raked hands rewards tight play. The fewer and bigger pots you play, the better off you are. Timed games are neutral. Playing loose isn't a disadvantage.

Finally, the money is different. Until you get used to it, putting $2000 on the line with real chips is different than pushing the slider bar over for $25.

I'm not saying 5/10 players crush 25nl players. However, live is going to play different. Not better, but different. If you've lost 300BB, a hand or two should have stung enough to remember. I suggest posting a HH and let everyone look at it.

A couple of thoughts on these two that haven't really been addressed...

First you need to have an excellent memory to play live, work on it if you don't have one now, search this forum for posts on the subject. Next use the smart phone and make notes on trouble hands and post them here.

Most people that tell me they run up a ~300BB stack from <=100BB start, then lose it all back, are almost always playing long sessions, too long. The idea that you should sit as long as you have a edge is valid, the problem is most people can not evaluate when they lose that edge to metal fatigue. What happens is that you open up leaks that vastly out weight any skill edge you held, e.g. 3 barreling into a no fold'em player.

I recommend that you keep you sessions no longer than 6 hours. Pay attention to your play as the session goes on. Are you mentally nodding off going on auto pilot? There are a lot of young guys that think they can play for 24 hours str8 and never lose their edge, they are lying to themselves. You are better off booking a 200BB win at 4-6 hours than sitting for 12 and book a 100BB+ loss.

I do have an excellent memory (in general.) My main job is in a science field which requires lots of memorization.

I didn't think about that. I usually keep them under 6 hours. The last one in particular I ran from $300 to $800 to $300 to $500 to busto in about 6 hours and 10 minutes (was recording the time on my iPhone.)

Tons of Red Bull and Techno music. At least that is what I do online haha. But yeah I see dudes get on a heater live and don't leave. They'll be sitting there for up to 30 hrs straight. There was a guy at Harrah's in KC that they had to give him a room to suggest he go clean up because he sat there two days straight and played without showering. He was a fat heavy set sweaty guy so he began to stink so much ppl started complaining.

hahah awesome story

I'm going to make it three times that you've been given the right answer: You have almost no fold equity in live low stakes.

As a rule, cut the multi-street bluffs out of your game (have decent equity to keep barreling). In a 2 or 3 way pot, feel free to c-bet flops with a scare card and similar situations. But if you whiff in a 4 way pot, you should just check/fold.

The games here in vegas are changing a lot; they play way more like online games than they did last summer when i was here last. If your town is like Vegas is now, you're likely to be facing two different kinds of players.

The first group are the typical live recreational players who didn't go to the casino to fold, by golly. Against these guys, you have no fold equity because they want to get to showdown.

The second group of players you will run across are the online players. Most of these guys are assuming they are the best player at the table, and will do silly **** like float you on pretty much any flop because they are planning to take the live player to poker school and outplay you. Against these guys, you have almost no fold equity on most flops.

Against the online guys, you DO have fold equity on the turn, if you pick your spots. And your FE does go way up on scare cards on the turn against both groups.

So I'm not going to say, "just don't bluff." But I will say that any bluff you make that is not a no-brainer spot to bluff you better be thinking about long and hard before you pull the trigger, because it is probably a mistake.

when it comes to bluffing, one thing i always remember is a thread by Digger where he ran an experiment: he played like 50k hands of 25nl online using totally ABC lines. and spit out a sick graph by the end of it.

one of his key observations was that during the experiment, 90% of the time when he bluffed he lost the pot.

your fold equity at 25nl is probably higher than it is in live low stakes games.

cliffs: what mpethy says is right (of course there are profitable spots to bluff) but "just don't bluff" would still be a huge improvement over any style you adopt that incorporates bluffs in any significant way.

Observations after 4 sessions of Live 2/3/5 500max buy in no limit

Pre-flop bet sizing is too large in general. $30-$40 opens. So far I am exploiting this just by folding and playing my value hands appropriately by either 3-betting or sometimes slow-playing. I have not tried flatting these raises with speculative hands except small pocket pairs or 3 betting light and trying to take the pot post. One of the reasons for not making these calls comes my next observation..

Bombing the flop. Flop bets are huge. Everyone seems so concerned with "making the draws pay etc". The only problem is I can't really find a rhyme or reason to a lot of flop bets. I see top pair, middle pair, air, etc. You really never seem to get actual correct odds to call with a draw on the flop besides taking into account implied odds. I often find myself playing very nitty on the flop.

I've been playing very exploitable preflop basically seeing speculative hands for cheap and raising up my strong hands. (I'll make a few well timed moves a session but I'm basically getting away with this) Then playing straightforward post flop with once again the occasional move. I have found little need to balance my range.

Both aggressiveness and bet sizes fall drastically on the turn and river. I sat with a good lag yesterday and he was making all the moves I have been thinking might not be such a great idea with people that generally don't fold... but he absolutely destroyed. He was up $5k in a $500 buyin 2/3/5 game. He was playing his position, 3 betting relentlessly, and had a very wide range. What was interesting was he was approaching the game almost like limit holdem. The hand didn't seem to really start for him till the turn. He was really just dominating the later streets. So basically he was getting involved with the large preflop and calling the pot sized(or greater than post sized flop bet) and taking it from there. Of course he made a lot of big hands and was given two huge gifts at one point... but he was really playing well. I've been "exploiting" the oversized bets by just folding and then when I have value pre/post earning more that hand then I would of in a "normal" game. But I can't stop feeling like I'm passing up spots all the time and it was nice to see someone doing it successfully.

sidenote: I'm actually up $2,420 in my 4 session (18hrs) but I'm pretty sure I've made every cent of it from pocket AA's by running into good spots with those AA's. I am just baffled with what other people are doing and I feel like I'm just playing like a nit pre (not a real nit, just compared to the cold calling ranges of what other people are playing) and on the flop (way too fit or fold, I don't know what people are betting on the flop because I don't think they know)