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Old 03-20-2019, 10:20 PM   #1
budfox89
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Smart but tilting LAG bets huge on scare cards. Feels like a bluff but can you call? $1/$3

Hero ($250) has been playing so-so as a TAG. Not getting great hands, been raised off some hands on the flop.

Villain is a middle aged Indian guy who's got me covered. Seems pretty smart, but more there to gamble than to win. Made a oversized semibluff against me earlier with a FD. He's steaming because he lost a big hand with AK and the other guy slow rolled him. OTTH

Hero in CO with KhTh. Folded to Hero and he bets to $15. Villain in BB calls, everyone else folds.

Td 8h 3h. ($30) V checks. Hero bets $15. V calls.

9c ($65) V bets $35. I was surprised by this donk. Figured if he had a straight or 2-pair, he would most likely check raise right? With the flush draw and TP, I just quickly called. Maybe I should have raised hoping for a check on the river.

Qd ($135). V shoves, putting me all in for my remaining $185.

Seemed like such a strange overbet. If he had 2-pair or better, would he not go for a smaller value bet? But I lost my nerve and folded. Would you have called?
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Old 03-20-2019, 10:33 PM   #2
NOVAgrind
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Re: Smart but tilting LAG bets huge on scare cards. Feels like a bluff but can you call? $1/$3

I think we can avoid this spot by raising turn vs this villain, as played I fold.
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Old 03-21-2019, 07:45 AM   #3
MrNice1878
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Re: Smart but tilting LAG bets huge on scare cards. Feels like a bluff but can you call? $1/$3

AP fold on the river. We can find much better spots than this. Yes sometimes he could be bluffing here but we don't need to be hero calling second pair on this board vs this villain IMO.

Raising turn is an option, but if he then ships we're forced to go with our hand in a high variance spot. Depends how you feel most comfortable playing it.

I think the way you played it was fine.
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Old 03-21-2019, 09:43 AM   #4
DannyAIC
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Re: Smart but tilting LAG bets huge on scare cards. Feels like a bluff but can you call? $1/$3

The biggest problem I see for you, is you're not blocking the jack of hearts. There's nothing to stop him from having AJ or QJh, or even J9h which would make perfect sense given the betting.

Even in his bluffing range he still has you beat. 109, AQh (though he might have reraised that pre),

This is a fold.
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Old 03-21-2019, 09:45 AM   #5
mdelore
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Re: Smart but tilting LAG bets huge on scare cards. Feels like a bluff but can you call? $1/$3

wp and fold river. You shouldn't just call down on the very worst runout because he's bluffy.
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Old 03-21-2019, 12:25 PM   #6
gobbledygeek
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Re: Smart but tilting LAG bets huge on scare cards. Feels like a bluff but can you call? $1/$3

Regarding preflop, we know the BB is going to come along and we also know he is likely a lot more capable of stealing pots postflop than we are (correct?). If that's the case, would we like to build a small pot preflop or a big one? Raising would certainly be "standard" in this spot, but with this guy in the mix we might want to consider keeping the pot small preflop (even in position) and consider open limping.

Flop is either/or for me. Overall, if our hand remains UI then we likely don't want to play for stacks (which this guy can make us do) so I'd lean to checking back the flop. However, with all our equity and against a bluffer and with these stacks we might also be fine with facing a raise, so either way is probably fine. The deeper we are the more we might want to check this back.

One of the drawbacks to betting the flop is that we can still be forced to play for bigger $$$ on later streets UI by simply facing a donk, which is what happened here. If we hadda checked back the flop we'd be keeping the pot much more under control for later streets (which we want to do if we remain UI). I also call the turn.

And the river is why preflop and flop options really need to be carefully considered. It's a gross spot, imo, and one that we didn't really need to put ourselves in. If you snap know the "correct" play on the river (FWIW, I don't) then there is no reason to avoid this spot; but if you don't, you really need to reconsider earlier streets.

Gputyourselfingoodspots,imoG
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Old 03-21-2019, 12:58 PM   #7
budfox89
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Re: Smart but tilting LAG bets huge on scare cards. Feels like a bluff but can you call? $1/$3

Good advice. Yeah I was having a bad night and probably on tilt. Seeing bluffs everywhere and looking for spots to make a hero call.

Folding was the river was the right move. Will catch this guy in another spot. Thanks!
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Old 03-21-2019, 02:59 PM   #8
Amanaplan
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Re: Smart but tilting LAG bets huge on scare cards. Feels like a bluff but can you call? $1/$3

Blue horseshoe likes fold
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Old 03-21-2019, 04:00 PM   #9
hyperknit
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Re: Smart but tilting LAG bets huge on scare cards. Feels like a bluff but can you call? $1/$3

Wp now fold.

I expect v to be bluffing a lot o the turn with a lot of JX
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Old 03-21-2019, 07:27 PM   #10
Richard32
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Re: Smart but tilting LAG bets huge on scare cards. Feels like a bluff but can you call? $1/$3

Would be just very slightly more inclined to call if we didn’t have the K of hearts

He can easily have two pair or better here. Calling is fine on turn but folding river as played.
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Old 03-22-2019, 04:47 AM   #11
RottPhiler
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Re: Smart but tilting LAG bets huge on scare cards. Feels like a bluff but can you call? $1/$3

Must raise turn. As played it is a fold on the river.

The flop is great for your hand. You can size up more to full pot. Half-pot gets less money into the pot when you're way ahead with a redraw. You want to be piling in the money, so betting full-pot would be better. That would have made the pot $90 if V called, setting up a trivial shove if he donk-led the turn into you for $55ish. If you're behind (unlikely) on the turn you still have 9-14 outs.
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Old 03-22-2019, 05:20 AM   #12
adios
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Re: Smart but tilting LAG bets huge on scare cards. Feels like a bluff but can you call? $1/$3

Quote:
Originally Posted by RottPhiler View Post
Must raise turn. As played it is a fold on the river.

The flop is great for your hand. You can size up more to full pot. Half-pot gets less money into the pot when you're way ahead with a redraw. You want to be piling in the money, so betting full-pot would be better. That would have made the pot $90 if V called, setting up a trivial shove if he donk-led the turn into you for $55ish. If you're behind (unlikely) on the turn you still have 9-14 outs.
Yes the flop was really good and the half pot size bet is pretty bad especially against a steamer.
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Old 03-22-2019, 09:55 AM   #13
Spanishmoon
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Re: Smart but tilting LAG bets huge on scare cards. Feels like a bluff but can you call? $1/$3

Quote:
Originally Posted by RottPhiler View Post
Must raise turn. As played it is a fold on the river.

The flop is great for your hand. You can size up more to full pot. Half-pot gets less money into the pot when you're way ahead with a redraw. You want to be piling in the money, so betting full-pot would be better. That would have made the pot $90 if V called, setting up a trivial shove if he donk-led the turn into you for $55ish. If you're behind (unlikely) on the turn you still have 9-14 outs.
Agreed.

This hand illustrates the "new/gto" versus "old" style of poker really well. If Doyle Brunson is playing this hand, it's: flop PSB, V folds - on to the next hand.

I appreciate all the GTO stuff - perhaps it is the correct default style - and it has its place. So does common sense. What I see happening a lot more is Vs floating flops that favor their range to set up really gross spots/bluffs/semi-bluffs on any scare card or problematic runout for opening Hero.

V has played this well but did get lucky. AP, H has to fold as all the combo draws hit. I feel like TAGs, since that's my default style, can be exploited in this manner and should be prepared to show more aggression against wise-ass Vs like this guy.
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Old 03-22-2019, 12:45 PM   #14
RottPhiler
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Re: Smart but tilting LAG bets huge on scare cards. Feels like a bluff but can you call? $1/$3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spanishmoon View Post
This hand illustrates the "new/gto" versus "old" style of poker really well. If Doyle Brunson is playing this hand, it's: flop PSB, V folds - on to the next hand.

I appreciate all the GTO stuff - perhaps it is the correct default style - and it has its place.
You can still balance out PSBs on the flop with hands like AK, AQ, QJ, J9, 97, 77-. etc.
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