i have done some reading on ways for rec players to counter the more experienced/skilled players. specifically millers gsih. in 1/2 i have been buying in at $110 and playing ultra tight preflop and jamming the pot with good hands. it is not the most elegant or sophisticated poker, however, what is the skilled players counter to it?

The adjustments to make against shortstackers who are playing this way is to attack their blinds and/or limps relentlessly since they are only getting involved in raised pots with premium hands. When they do raise give them credit and get out of their way. If they're good at it, they'll adjust to you accordingly and there's little you can do to beat the rake in the long run. I don't think I've seen many good shortstackers since most good players buy in full and maximize their advantage. Shortstacking is like having training wheels on a bike. If you want to go fast, they've got to come off sooner or later.

miller discusses that and provides that in nl big stacks have no intrinically bigger value than short stacks

Big stacks don't have an intrinsic advantage over short stacks, but a good player on a full stack has a much bigger advantage against a deep-stacked whale then he would on a short stack. That's why you buy in full.

I play in a town with no casinos. All the games are home games. They are littered with short stacks. I have just learned to stay out of their way. Someone with less than 50bbs is getting no action from me unless I have the goods! But it can also be good if they run their stack up to over 150bbs. at this point I will try and play lots of pots with them b/c they are so uncomfortable playing semi deep.

There is a good Cotw or cotm in llsnl or bq about playing against short stackers. I suggest reading that

The skilled player's counter to it is to never give you action without a big hand, and wait for the rake to eat all your winnings. (I speak from experience half-stacking 1/2.)

If you short stack at 2/5, though, you're going to be very hard to beat. But, as others have said, if you short stack a 2/5 game full of deep-stacked fish, the good players will just avoid you and wallop the fish for more money than you are able to win off them.

The problem with shortstacking live is that just beating the other players is not enough to win money, because live rake is so crippling. If you want to just focus on not being exploitable then sure you can probably grind out a few bucks an hour, but if you want to make the most money you need a deeper stack so you can capitalize on your opponents' mistakes.

The skilled player's counter to you shortstacking is to move to another table.

The strategy Miller talks about is just about right if your stack is 20 big blinds. A $110 stack at 1-2 NL is 55 big blinds. In other words, your stack needs to be around $40 if you want to play that exact style. With $110 you can still do a lot of things he talks about (play tight, be harder to bluff, rely a lot on starting hand strength), but I think that book was written at a time when buy-ins used to be lower.

With 55 big blinds it's going to be harder to get stacks in quickly, and you can loosen up a bit from the super tight style that Miller recommends. $110 is actually much trickier to play with than $40, even though your edge could be bigger if you play a decent game.

a good player wont use large enough sizing to be exploited by you and will fold every time you show any strength. tbh you shouldnt play at all if u feel u are against better players. your buyin should always be to cover all the players worse than u or that u are in position of. max buyin is pretty much always preferable and top up often

One of the problems with a short stack strategy that "specifically" targets more advanced players is simply that at LLSNL there aren't all that many advanced players at the table.

Picture this. We are at a typical 1/2nl table on a Thursday night. Several players are drinking it up, having fun, and luckboxing each other, they are sitting on $200 - $700. There is a terribad fish on a heater who is making horrendous calls and getting lucky, he is at $1.2k. There is a player on tilt who is on his 3rd rebuy and is at $100. There is a donk who thinks he's awesome but is awful and he's sitting on $400. There is one decent thinking player who crushes the game for 15bb/hr he is at $300. There is a passive player who has bled down to $70. And then there is Hero...

Hero decides to buy-in to this game for $100 so he doesn't get owned by the one thinking player at the table

That is what I think about whenever someone starts expounding on the virtues of short stacking so they don't get exploited

I just see it as lost opportunity and value. Instead of having the correct odds to engage the more terribad players at the table, you have limited yourself to folding...folding...folding and waiting...waiting...waiting... for JJ+, AK or "hoping" you can limp in with your baby pairs and hit a set...

To me, there is nothing worse than being at a great action table with chips sloshing around and being short stacked. You miss out on so much opportunity... That is how I see it

Aw there's nothing wrong with buying in short if you want to take a stab at higher limits than you're used to. Partially because it's pretty easy to learn a decent short-stack strategy (if that's what you're asking.)

Problem is
1. It's boooooooring. Sheesh, I'd rather watch my toenails grow.
2. You might think it's lower variance, but it isn't. It's actually higher variance than buying in full.
3. Eventually, if you play your cards right, you will be playing at 100bb anyway. You gotta learn how to play at that stack size and deeper if you're gonna play poker.

But yeah, you're stayin at the Wynn, you're dressed up all fine, you got $500 to blow, you're drunk, you want to sit a while with a bunch of whales at 5/10...go for it. That's just good clean fun, there. Double up and next thing ya know, you're in the club with a bunch of pretty babies smooching on you and stuff.

In Vegas, everyone's a winner.

Just my opinion, but the only good reason to short stack at a 1-2 or so casino table is because you don't have enough money and still want to play some cards. Likely some value if you are a bit outmatched at higher stakes, but not a great idea either. Some folks like to do it and have their reasons.

The skilled player doesn't make much or any adjustment.

When table selecting you want to the best or 2nd best player at the table and not fearing other "good" players or NITs; targeting them when the conditions are correct/favorable.

I've seen the short stack strategy breakdown for emotional/tilt reason; this player gets tired of folding hand after hand after hand after hand ... etc... and goes on to randomly spew their 60BBs in a weird spot. Be patient and wait, you'll find it happening.

For buy in amounts- many people are wrong! The proper initial buy in size WITHOUT A HISTORY OR KNOWLEDGE OF YOUR OPPONENTS is 60-70bb AINEC. Re: Limon said so.

Think about this. Saturday Night 2/5NL 300-2000 buy in. All Unknowns but are drinking, loud, a few gypsies with tons of jewelry at the table. Stacks range from 300-4000. How much do you buy in for?

Ask yourself these questions before you answer: Do you have a plan to crush each person? Do you know who the good players are? Do you know who the fish are? Are you comfortable playing deep stack? 200BB deep? 300bb deep?

Answer: You buy in for 300 to start while you create a plan on how to crush each person/ build a history/ analyze opponents play. Do you really want to play 400bb against a superdonk crusher? Now, do you want to play 400bb against a fish? Only after you have a history, should you top off/max buy in.

You should never put more money on the table than what's needed and what you feel comfortable playing with.

As others said, skilled players don't waste time worrying about short stackers at 1/2 because they almost never have a good short stack strategy. They are just playing poker like they see on TV in a tournament.

Most players don't know what ingredients are necessary to play winning short stack poker. Waiting for good cards and shoving isn't the answer.