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Live Low-stakes NL Discussion of up to 3/5 live no-limit, pot-limit and spread-limit Texas Hold'em poker games, situations and strategies.

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Old 09-21-2018, 11:43 AM   #1
thenewoldpro
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Small pairs, big pots..advice please?

I am at a place nicknamed "the barn". It's a dive but it's worth playing there because the loosest, wildest players are often there and pay you off when you hit.

Here's the scenario, I am thinking I played this hand wrong.

1-2 NL 200 Max buy in. 2 tight players to my left. but everyone else on the table is very loose and agressive. I won a pot and now have about $400 in front of me. Player to my left has about $60 and is very tight. Maniac # 1, mid position with about 400 in front. Maniac 2 has $300 from mid position, Maniac 3 is in the lowjack with $200 Maniac 3 is in the CO with about $250. I am on the big blind.

Mr tight to my left, raises $25.00. Villain 1 calls. Villain 2 calls, Villain 3 calls. Villain 4 calls. I look down and see 9s, 9d.

I know mr tight is way ahead of me. But he made the pot really juicy. There's $125 in the pot. I decide to call, making the pot a little over $150.00

Flop is 6d,4d, 3s.

I check. Mr tight goes all in for his remaining 35. All the villains call.

What should be my next move?
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Old 09-21-2018, 11:47 AM   #2
tmo1120
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Re: Small pairs, big pots..advice please?

I think board is too wet and connected to fire a raise into 3 players with wide ranges that could hit this; I would flat call and assess situation on the turn
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Old 09-21-2018, 12:06 PM   #3
Javanewt
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Re: Small pairs, big pots..advice please?

I just flat. If you are behind Mr. Tight and you raise, what does it accomplish? You're going to lose to him most likely, anyway, so getting them to fold doesn't help. Let them think you are drawing, etc., and re-assess the turn, most of which I'd check depending on how villains see you.
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Old 09-21-2018, 12:12 PM   #4
Playbig2000
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Re: Small pairs, big pots..advice please?

call. You're hand isn't strong enough to raise, evaluate the turn. I would fold to another diamond, 5, T, J, Q, K or A with someone betting.
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Old 09-21-2018, 02:02 PM   #5
c0rnBr34d
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Re: Small pairs, big pots..advice please?

At first glace I was thinking flat but after reading the other comments I like a fold here. Along with the other listed turn cards we dont want to see, how easy is it for one of these 4 maniacs to hold a 5? That means I'm adding 2 and 7 to our list of shut down turn cards. So we have:
any diamond, 2, 5, 7, T, J, Q, K or A. What's left? I guess we are essentially drawing to an 8, 9, or maybe the board pairing 3s. Surely there are better value spots than this? We are 6 ways and behind a good portion of tight guys jamming range. I cant see a good reason to play OOP against 4 maniacs and a tight all in with this little equity. I'm folding.
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Old 09-21-2018, 02:12 PM   #6
pocketzeroes
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Re: Small pairs, big pots..advice please?

I honestly don’t think shipping would be all that bad. I’m just not expecting to be against any super strong hands, but a lot of draws. Yeah, you’ll be flipping against those draws, but you’ve got a bit of an overlay in case mr tight has a hand like AK. It’s a somewhat bad situation for you if you’re called in 3 spots by like A5, TJdd, and 67 — but more likely villains will be sharing more outs than this scenario, and your equity should be decent.... At least some of the time, I’d expect everybody to fold, and you to be ahead against mr tight.... I dunno, it’s close I guess (and high variance), but calling where virtually every card other than a 9 can be bad for you is meh too.

If you didn’t have 9d, I’d lean towards a fold.
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Old 09-21-2018, 02:43 PM   #7
c0rnBr34d
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Re: Small pairs, big pots..advice please?

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Originally Posted by pocketzeroes View Post
I honestly don’t think shipping would be all that bad. I’m just not expecting to be against any super strong hands, but a lot of draws. Yeah, you’ll be flipping against those draws, but you’ve got a bit of an overlay in case mr tight has a hand like AK. It’s a somewhat bad situation for you if you’re called in 3 spots by like A5, TJdd, and 67 — but more likely villains will be sharing more outs than this scenario, and your equity should be decent.... At least some of the time, I’d expect everybody to fold, and you to be ahead against mr tight.... I dunno, it’s close I guess (and high variance), but calling where virtually every card other than a 9 can be bad for you is meh too.

If you didn’t have 9d, I’d lean towards a fold.
After our shove the pot will be $700, I don't think there are a lot of maniacs that are calling $35 and then folding any draw against these pot odds. Only one of them is deep enough to have to call off the whole $340. For the sake of argument lets say only 2 maniacs call along with Mr "very" tight. We will still need to dodge raindrops to find a profit here IMO.
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Old 09-21-2018, 03:13 PM   #8
pocketzeroes
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Re: Small pairs, big pots..advice please?

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Originally Posted by c0rnBr34d View Post
After our shove the pot will be $700, I don't think there are a lot of maniacs that are calling $35 and then folding any draw against these pot odds. Only one of them is deep enough to have to call off the whole $340. For the sake of argument lets say only 2 maniacs call along with Mr "very" tight. We will still need to dodge raindrops to find a profit here IMO.
Then bring an umbrella...

But seriously, if our pair of 9s is currently the best hand, then our equity against 2-3 opponents won't ever be all that bad (for the odds we're getting on our money), and could be rather good (e.g., if one of the villains has 88). With the overlay we're getting by sometimes being ahead of Mr Tight, and that side pot - and also having two clean outs, ~9%, in case we're not - i think it's worth it.
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Old 09-21-2018, 03:35 PM   #9
Unikpkr
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Re: Small pairs, big pots..advice please?

I think good enough odds to call. Check all turns, fold on anything other than a 9 in which case I hope I can check/shove.
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Old 09-21-2018, 04:45 PM   #10
weiskoda
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Re: Small pairs, big pots..advice please?

Quote:
Originally Posted by thenewoldpro View Post
I am at a place nicknamed "the barn". It's a dive but it's worth playing there because the loosest, wildest players are often there and pay you off when you hit.

Here's the scenario, I am thinking I played this hand wrong.

1-2 NL 200 Max buy in. 2 tight players to my left. but everyone else on the table is very loose and agressive. I won a pot and now have about $400 in front of me. Player to my left has about $60 and is very tight. Maniac # 1, mid position with about 400 in front. Maniac 2 has $300 from mid position, Maniac 3 is in the lowjack with $200 Maniac 3 is in the CO with about $250. I am on the big blind.

Mr tight to my left, raises $25.00. Villain 1 calls. Villain 2 calls, Villain 3 calls. Villain 4 calls. I look down and see 9s, 9d.

I know mr tight is way ahead of me. But he made the pot really juicy. There's $125 in the pot. I decide to call, making the pot a little over $150.00

Flop is 6d,4d, 3s.

I check. Mr tight goes all in for his remaining 35. All the villains call.

What should be my next move?
I actually think the best play might be to 3-bet preflop to $100-125 - If you're going to play the hand, given tight's short stack, you know you are likely way behind his $60. But you are likely ahead of the loose villains' ranges. By 3-betting, there's a good chance you'll isolate against one or two of the loose villains (a good result) and if they all fold, there's a lot of dead money which likely gives you about the right pot odds vs tight villain. Thoughts?
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Old 09-21-2018, 09:56 PM   #11
ImAllInNow
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Re: Small pairs, big pots..advice please?

Tightwads hand range is not very relevant in this hand given that he's rather short stacked. We are way ahead of the other villains' ranges and should be jamming preflop here. Even if all the other villain's fold and we get in vs tightwads AA we're not that upset given the odds we're getting (we only need to be 26% to win vs tightwads calling range).

Now maybe its arguable that we have a better flat call with best relative position and a lot of loose players, but I think we might get called preflop by worse hands too, so I still think shoving is better with 99+. Could flat 88-.

As played preflop... probably fold. Tightwad can have every overpair and we're gonna be hardpressed to end up on the river with the best hand even if he doesn't.
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Old 09-22-2018, 12:07 PM   #12
thenewoldpro
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Re: Small pairs, big pots..advice please?

Thank you all for your responses, I guess It's time to mention what happened:

Preflop I was really thinking of pushing all-in. But I couldn't. My logic was that I was way behind Mr Tight (MR tight does not raise $25 with Ace-King!). Table was loose but I don't know if they call an all in back for their entire stack. In fact I don't think they would. Chances are I end up protecting Mr Tights hand for him and then I lose. Plus I am taking a small risk that maybe one of the villains actually has something and is trapping. Another possibility ps that I am involved with 2 overcards and I am coin flipping for my entire stack.

When the flop came down, I folded..which I now think is a big mistake and everyone here agrees. My thinking is that I was badly out of poisiton and any card on the turn would be a danger, Any 2, Any 7, A diamond. An ace. It was just too risky for me and I felt I could get my chips in at a better time.

After the calls, the turn card came the 8c, which I thought was a total blank. Villain 1 checked. Villain 2 Checked. Villain 3 bet $55. Villain 4 snapped called. Then Villain 1 hesitated for a minute and folded. Villain 2 quickly folded.

The river came the 3h, pairing the board. Villain 3 hesistated, became all hollywood like he was about to go all in and then checked. Villain 4 checked the river. Villain 3 showed jack-10 of diamonds. Villain 4 showed Ad-5h . Villain 4 scooped the side pot with Ace-high. mr tight flipped over his pocket queens and scooped the main pot. He then left the table. It was a good day for Mr tight.

Last edited by thenewoldpro; 09-22-2018 at 12:15 PM.
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Old 09-22-2018, 02:34 PM   #13
ImAllInNow
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Re: Small pairs, big pots..advice please?

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Originally Posted by thenewoldpro View Post
When the flop came down, I folded..which I now think is a big mistake and everyone here agrees. My thinking is that I was badly out of poisiton and any card on the turn would be a danger, Any 2, Any 7, A diamond. An ace. It was just too risky for me and I felt I could get my chips in at a better time.

After the calls, the turn card came the 8c, which I thought was a total blank. Villain 1 checked. Villain 2 Checked. Villain 3 bet $55. Villain 4 snapped called. Then Villain 1 hesitated for a minute and folded. Villain 2 quickly folded.

The river came the 3h, pairing the board. Villain 3 hesistated, became all hollywood like he was about to go all in and then checked. Villain 4 checked the river. Villain 3 showed jack-10 of diamonds. Villain 4 showed Ad-5h . Villain 4 scooped the side pot with Ace-high. mr tight flipped over his pocket queens and scooped the main pot. He then left the table. It was a good day for Mr tight.
I mean... even results oriented-wise you didn't make that bad of a fold. You wouldn't really have made much from the side pot and had to fade a ton of cards.
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