Hello 2+2ers I have been playing some 1/3 recently and am wondering If I am making many big mistakes making me a losing player... here are some notworthy hands from my 6ish hour session today:

1) 6 players Limp (this is a lot for the table) SB makes it 15 to go. I look doem at black QQ in the big and make it 40. Everyone folds SB calls after looking at my stack. Flop is 5c8d10c (100)
He checks I bet 40 he makes it 130 (330$ deep with villian)
I fold

2) in the BB (250$ effective) EP/MP raise to 15, 3 callers I call from BB.
Flop Ad2c3d
I check raiser (TAG) bets 35, I shove

3) 2 limpers I look down at red QQ on button ans make it 20 one caller, flop 3c8s9c he checks I bet 20 he calls
Turn Jh he checks I bet 40
River 2c he checks I bet 50 he raised to 200 I fold

4) gambling manic joined the table 1-2 hours ago (raises 75% and has called 2 playerd all in pre with 67hh) lot of limpers 4-5 (manic limps aswell) player in LP (nitty player) makes it 15 I look down at 67ss on the button I call, limpers call aswell.
Flop 5s10sQs (75) manic bets 40 raiser calls I make
It 125, manic talks for a bit and shoves, nitty player (150 Total
Stack) calls, but doesnt look that happy calling. I call (350$ effective with maniac)

5) hand with same player as last time (maniac)
But he just joined the table and isnt drunk yet.
Opening like 30%. He opens to 18 1 player calls. I look down at QdJh om the button. Have been card death for a few hours so decided to make a move and 3 bet to 45. Both call
Flop 10h7d5h both check I bet 55, manic calls other player folds.
Turn 8c he checks I bet 115 he calls
River 9h he shoves into me I fold.
I relize this hand is played terrible and
I Should fold pre or on the turn forsure, but felt like I had to post this one aswell
Since I played it so bad

So my main question is with plays like these can I play these stakes. The rake is Pretty high aswell 10%, 15$ cap. (Bit goes
To a royal jackpot, which was hit on the
Table next to me during the session)

$15 cap is absurd . you sure about that? lol

With a $15 rake it’s unlikely anyone can beat this game


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My guess is that OP is probably in a European country, maybe Australia


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yeah the rake is 15$ at the crown in Austrlia, Melbourne agree that it stupidly high (at 1/2 100$ max buyin its is capped at 20$ lol)

How deep are you in the last hand? I’m probably not folding the river with he but straight. You beat enough hands I think to call.

And if you are lacking confidence at 1/3 drop down for a few sessions at least.

No option to drop down at the crown.

1/3 is probably unbeatable by 99.99% but the 1/2 is indisputably a money pit


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Lol I play at Crown Melbourne too. The rake is ridiculous, I agree, but the games are very soft though, so it kind of evens out.

Hand 1: 3bet to $50 instead of $40. As played, I like the fold on the flop.
Hand 2: You didn't say what you had.
Hand 3: Well played, I like the thin river value bet too.
Hand 4: Well played.
Hand 5: I don't like the 3bet and the sizing is bad too. If you're going to 3bet then pick a better sizing like $75 which will actually give you some fold equity. You didn't say how deep his river shove was, so it might've been an awful fold or it might've been a great fold, depending on stack sizes.

Based on what I've seen, you're probably a breakeven to slight winning player at 1/3 NL.

Sorry had 22 in the 2nd hand and for the 5th hand I made a mistake in nothing down the hand River was a 4h

Why are we folding hand #1 ?

I ended up folding this hands just because the raise seemed very strong, I did not see the SB player 4 bet once in the session so I think its possible he has AA/KK some times here.
88/10s would be played like this aswell I assume. His 3 bet range pre seems something like 88s+ and AJ/AQs+ and AKo/AQo maybe.
I think most of these hands continue after I 3 bet pre.
I never see him 3 bet bluff with air OTF, so his range might be 88+10s+KK+AA+AJ-AKcc+AKo orso. I dont really wanna call OTP and see a turn, since I feel like i have to fold on club turns and A and K turns. So it is kinda a shove or fold spot and I need about 35% to shove here.
Best case scenario he has a calling range of 10s+AJcc+AKcc+AKo+AA (I give him aces and not kings since I guess he plays AA/KK like this half the time + he can ofc not have AQcc or even KQcc since i have the Qc) I would have less then 35%.
Just to sum up I just dont think 1/3 players bluff here enough to call and having the Qc makes it an okay fold. Having red Queens would make it a bit more thougher spot and I think shoving seems more okay if this is the case (I do think I would still find a fold most of the time vs nitty opponents though)

Also I think I can post the villians hands now (or atleast what they showed)

1) Didnt show
2) Didnt show, kinda like this shove more with 45 no diamonds or with 33s, since I can get it in ahead vs 22s/33s sometimes
3) I fold he shoves K4cc
4) Maniac man shows 84cc sad life and other guy shows AsAc
5) I fold the turn he shows the 6h for a straight and possibly a flush aswell

If you are playing live, 1/3 is as small as you can go where you live.

From everything I've read about about Melbourne, just simply playing tight and value betting is enough to win. I wouldn't have folded on hand 1, but nothing you did was horrible.

Would you suggest 3-betting all-in OTP or call and ship the turn If checked too? Only question with the 2nd one What if he shoves into me OTT? For both club or AK and What If he Ships it on a non-club?

What hands do you beat that can call an all-in? Making people fold the worst hand is rarely a good idea.

besides giving a bit much credit to villain having KK+ (making too broad of assumptions over a short history possibly...the default line is for villain to re-raise KK+, how the conclusion was reached that they don't is worth taking a closer look at imo) ++ a few more A-high flush draws for villain...i think the analysis looks good ^^.

re: jamming over villain's checkraise -- hero shoving becomes more viable on a 985 flop - more straight draws for villain and adding TT to his range of hands you crush...

H1:

What do we think of SB raising out of the blinds after this many limpers? If he's nit tight, this isn't an auto 3bet; otherwise, a 3bet is obviously fine.

Our 3bet offered him ~14:1 IO to ~setmine against us in a small SPR pot where we'll be unable to fold postflop on non A/K boards; that's simply offering too good of IO, imo. If 3betting I would have offered poor 8:1 odds and made it $55 - $60.

I don't think we should be folding SPR < 3 pots with an overpair on a drawy board, although it's always a gross spot getting check/raised on the flop when it's kinda obvious what we have.

Gsetupabetterspotpreflop,imoG

H2:

Can also just donk a PSB on the flop to shove the turn, but check/shoving is ok too, imo. Nice hand.

GcluelessNLnoobG

H3:

Next time include effective stacks.

I'm ok with preflop/flop although I might be a bit more on the flop (also depends how deep we are and whether we think we are committed, in which case build towards stacks ASAP but I'm assuming that isn't the case here).

If not committed, I would consider checking the turn back as the OESD got there and we could also be behind. Controls the pot plus sets up a trivial bluffcatcher on a non-flush river.

I think the river is a little thin. Everything has now gotten there and he was still interested in calling the turn when an overcard came. So we're basically looking to get called by middle pair. If we have a super active / 4barrelly image then it's more fine (plus folding to the raise), but the nittier our image the more we should check back.

GcluelessNLnoobG

H4:

Playing speculative hands in pots that are raised or could easily get reraised by the maniac is meh. I fold preflop.

Against a maniac I likely just shove the flop myself the first time. Maniacs don't fold draws on the flop, plus it's not all that big a shove considering remaining stacks. If we're beat we're beat (one of the reasons playing this high RIO hand preflop very multiway is quite meh).

GcluelessNLnoobG

H5:

You know who you can *consider* making moves on? Nits. Never ever ever ever make a move on a maniac. Trivial fold preflop.

I actually probably give up on the flop once the other guy is involved.

I take my free card on the turn. Maniac didn't come here to fold.

Unless stacks are insanely deep I can't see how we can fold the river against a maniac. I mean, the pot is already $475 by the river and we've bet $215 our of our stack, what did we start with?

Gwho'sthemaniacagain?G

Overall, your rake is *insanely* high. My rake went from $5 max to $7 max, and after thinking about this for quite a while, my conclusion is that the more crippling the rake with smaller stacks is then the way tighter we should play, so that's what I did at my table and my max rake is only lol half of yours (noting that I guesstimated that every $1 increase in rake could account for somewhere between 0.5 - 1.0 bb per hour off my winrate). Tighten *way* up. Like, nit tight. This rake will destroy anyone that is too loose. You'd have to have an insanely awesome table / deepstacked to justify splashing around in lots of pots, and a quite a few tables (smaller stacked, regs not getting too out of line) I would guess it could be close to unbeatable.

GcluelessNLnoobG

Yeah I agree, I do play Pretty nitty. Beating the game seems hard, but the tables are super soft. So still not Sure if Its realistic to beat these stakes.
For H1: SB was playing pretty tight, but only played with him for an hour or 2. But I think flatting will lead to most/all limpers just calling pre, this would be akward to play OOP. If we were a bit dweper and I knew he was a super nit I might call to set-mine. I dont worry to much about giving him great set-mining odds since we are just 100BB deep and I have position. If we were deeper I agree bigger 3-bet is needed.
H3: sorry stacks were 330 effective. Betting big flop and check turn seems good, on the otherside I do want to charge draws OTT and get value from any 9/J. Yeah River was thin (maybe to thin). Was not only trying to get value from middle pair here also 10J/QJ.
H4: Going all in OTF seems better as the raise I did, didnt think of this ingame but really like it way more. Maniac already acted pre so wasnt afraid of getting raised pre and had position on the 6-people going in the hand so I called, but yeah I see How this can get me into trouble
H5: agree Should have folded pre (he wasnt drunk af this moment and joined the table recently so didnt fully know that he was a maniac). Also think that checking flop and maybe delay-cbet on good Turns is better. River was a 4h made a mistake in the First post. But Yeah should have folded pre ;/

Thanks for the response!!

I beat 1/3 for $30 an hour over a like 400 or so hours before moving to 2/5 at Crown. I've also coached my brother and he went from a long time break even player to winning at around $30/hr at 1/3. Shoot me a DM and we can a chat about some ways to help you win in these games (: