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Should I ever fold KK preflop? Should I ever fold KK preflop?

04-19-2015 , 06:59 PM
bottom line or TLDR; at what times are people folding KK pre? Is there math to support it?

Lately it's been ridiculous how much a 3! At my local casino means only AA. The only time it might not be is against a short stack and if I'm making a large raise preflop, the amount relative to the pot once the short stack shoves is almost never enough to warrant a fold especially since they can shove $30 with TT. The following hand has me wondering if getting everything in preflop with KK hurts long term profit at low stakes.

1/2 game. Hero has been at table for 1 orbit.

V1 (330) talkative Vietnamese man. Before this hand, V1 had mentioned to another player how he "had to go all in" with his draw in a previous hand. Previous showdown: V1 saw a 6Q6 flop with $70 pot. V1 led for $20(was not the initial raiser) and got 1 call. Turn 6 river 5 checked around both times. 77 was shown and V1 mucked.

V2 (180) normal middle aged man. No read.

Hero (380) mid 20 man. Tag game but only at the table for 1 orbit.

Within the 1 orbit 4 hands were raised to $10 preflop. 77 won one of them. $10 seemed standard as a raise size no one commented it was too much to call.

V1 opens to $30 preflop the hand immediately after the 77 hand.
V2 flats
Hero in BB re raises to $120 with KK.

V1 has a reaction to the raise. He looks at cards and then picks up his 3 greens. Puts them back down. He then picks them up and puts them on his stack and moves everything in. He gets up and gives "time to go home speech". V2 thinks and calls. $630 in the pot 210 more to call.

I'm just going to say V1 had AA and V2 had QQ because my question is not about this specific hand.

If the tables normal raise is 10 and LLSNL players make big scared raises with JJ sometimes
Is there ever a time when we should fold KK. It's easy to say fold if you reraise to $30 and the tightest player ever goes all in for 600 more and you have him covered. I'm talking about wether or not we should just call and try to get value out of A face that hits TPTK or continue to raise or reraise with KK but keep it small and fold to huge 're raises and shoves all in?
In some other rooms I play at some guys 're raise and call with QQ but ever since I moved north it seems like no one ever shoves more than 20BB pre without AA. Even KK just calls $50 pre and leaves $10 behind.
There are situations for specific hands like set mining with PP and playing small ball with SCs but KK is usually GII. At LLSNL are there different ways to play it?

Last edited by rayban; 04-19-2015 at 07:08 PM.
04-19-2015 , 07:14 PM
This thread may get locked because it's too generic and a rehash of conversations we seemed to have had multiple times. Yes, when you know the other guys range is tilted way towards AA and the math supports a KK fold, chuck it. Those spots seem to happen once every 1000 hours or so.
04-19-2015 , 07:38 PM
Quote:
This thread may get locked because it's too generic and a rehash of conversations we seemed to have had multiple times.
this. Please do a search on "fold KK" to see some of the thousands of threads we've had on this subject.

General answer: Barring strong reads, never fold KK pre for less than 150BBs effective.
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