Ok not going to go through my whole history here but I started tracking in 2014. That was also the first year I took shots at 2/5. I'm mostly a 1/2 player but I've taken between 10 and 30 shots a year at 2/5 until last year where I played 220 of my 255 hours at 2/5 over 61 sessions. I realize it's lol sample size but I was able to post a decent win rate at 2/5 and now want to take a few shots at a local 10/10 3k max buy game. It rarely runs so I'm not talking about really moving up or playing it consistently but I'd like to know what to expect and opinions on when and how to go for it. I've heard the game is really nitty too. What are the major transition issues you guys have had between 2/5 and 5/10? I played a 2/5/10 game once by accident but didn't really sit long enough to learn much.

Why do you play poker? If it's for the challenge I say go for it, but otherwise I'd spend more time at 2/5

As mentioned the larger games rarely run so this isn't really an issue. I don't really play for the challenge. I played for years for fun, and recently I've been more focused on win rate. I feel like I learned a lot from the time spent at 2/5 though and figured I could learn from the next level as well. Also I imagine it may be easier to make $50/hr at 10/10 than maintain that same win rate at 2/5.

I'll also add if there are other threads on this topic please drop links. I did a quick search and the first two pages of results came up blank.

Default plan would be to sit about $1.7k and nit it up while figuring out the table then try to adjust accordingly. I've played 2/5 with 4 or 5 of the 10/10 regs already and while I consider them solid I don't feel like they are unbeatable.

In terms of adjusting your game, I just try to keep things as simple as possible and play my hands fairly standard. Personally I've found I get called down more often when people play with me for the first time so I just go for value and don't bluff too much.

Also conversely I've found that players are less likely to bluff you if they don't know you (whereas 1/2 2/5 obviously that varies a lot more). I learned this the hard way, because I thought everyone was trying to bluff me when I took my first couple of shots. Learning that lesson cost me a lot of money.

That said, overall players are usually much better at going for thin value, so you may need to widen your calling ranges as an adjustment.

From a psychological standpoint, I believe it's extremely important to go in with high confidence and just be as relaxed as possible, because the brain operates way better when it's not pumping tons of adrenaline.

My 2 cents, hope it's helpful, gl man.

unless you know for sure that the expected ROI/hour is definitely more than 1/3 or 2/5, it is probably not a wise idea. Moving up in stakes should not be done to satisfy your ego or emotions, but for many poker players, that is not the case.

Sometimes the biggest game in the room is the easiest to beat. All it requires is the bankroll large enough to withstand the variance.

So 2/5 is now your main game? Whats your winrate and how tough is the game?

If you still consider yourself a 1/2 player i would not recommend playing 5/10, though i guess if you are really curious, go for it.

5/10 and above are generally deep stack games. They play differently than LLSNL. Nitting it up is a not a good strategy at that level. You're going to get pushed off a lot of hands or get no action. If it runs rarely, you're going to play the best players in the room. To win money, you have to be the best or second best player in your room.

Are you?

Thanks, this is exactly the type of thing I was looking for.

How can I possibly know with any certainty what my ROI/hr will be in a game I've never sat? That's the whole point of taking a few shots IMO. Nothing to do with ego.

Again, this is what I want to find out. I don't have the roll to play regularly but I can afford to hit the felt on a shot take here and there without risk of ruin. I have a full time job.

I don't know if I currently have a main game. Last year I averaged $65+/hr over 255 hours at 2/5. I'm not sure how to rate how tough the game is. Compared to 1/2 it's much tougher but still very beatable. The strength of the game varies wildly by table as well.

Curious why it matters what game I consider my main game to be important. I'll typically sit where I think my win rate will be best. If there's a soft 2/5 I'm there. If the 2/5 seat is at a strong table and there's a fishy 1/3 I would sit there instead. I have been obliterating 1/2 for the last 6 months as well and I'm kind of curious how long I can continue to post insane win rates at 1/2 against much easier Villains.

This doesn't seem fair. Are you saying it's a confidence thing? By this logic everyone at the table (and on the list) thinks they are one of the best 2 players in the room? Also, if I never sit at the table how will I ever know where I rank among the "top" players? Surely some of the players are just whales and not sharks right? I've spoken to some fellow 2/5 players who have sat short and taken shots. I don't pretend to know all their results but I caught one at the cage with 2k who said he sat $800. I know I'm at least as good as that guy. I've also played with 4 or so of the other 10/10 regs (at a 2/5 table). I think I could outplay one of them. The other 3 seem solid but I'm not ready to say with any certainty who is better than who...

I'm speaking as someone who used to be a reg at rooms that ran 2/5 and (often but not always) 5/10, and played in both.

If you are going to play in a 9- or 10-handed game, and there are 3 players whose games you know, but you "cannot say with certainty" you have an edge over, then you probably should wait to move up.

That being said, I think you are missing a key element of how to minimize your risk if you do want to take a shot: buy in smaller.

Why would your default plan be to sit $1.7k deep? What is special about that number that you feel is going to help you?

From my experience both on the forum and from playing, I think a lot of 2+2 doesn't understand the power of controlling your buy-in. I built my bankroll buying in for 100bb at a time in a 2/5 game--it just so happened that that was the minimum, not the maximum, buy-in in that game. But I didn't let it bother me that other people always had me covered until after I won 2 big pots. In fact I think that helped get me action.

You said yourself that you saw someone you think you're better than leaving the big game with $1200 profit after buying in for $800. What if you just did that? Why would that be bad?

Tables are definitely more reg heavy, and everyone in general is a better player and more aggressive so it forces you to be sharp and put yourself in good spots if you want to win. I feel like it has made me a better player, also given me a lot of confidence when I booked that first win taking a shot, like I know I can hang with these guys.

It is a completely different game though, last time I took a shot at 5/10 the game eventually got short-handed and people agreed to play one more dealer and be done. I wasn't ready to leave yet so I decided to go play 2/5 afterwards. One of the first hands I played I had 87s in the CO, action was like 3 limps to me and at the point I was ready to leave. Had I been at 5/10 action probably would've either folded to me, or saw one opener and then I get to 3-bet.

When I said moving up in stakes, I meant that playing 5/10 would become your default game whenever you play versus 1/3 or 2/5. Taking a shot here and there does not count as, "moving up in stakes".

So you started this thread about the possibility of taking a shot? Dude, just do it.

The thing about bigger stakes games is that the game ususally revolves around one or two big fish and everyone else is very solid.

Beat the fish. No point in getting out of line with good 5-10 regs. Just focus on the fish.

This is also good advice, thanks. I can't say I have an edge or not because I haven't played with them long enough. There are typically 5 to 10 2/5 tables running so 3 hours here or there it's tough to fully asses someone's play.

The buy in amount is a good point. I just wasn't sure if 100 BB would give me enough flexibility to maneuver. I'm not dead set on any amount, I was just thinking 150 ish BB would be good as you indicated to not look like a scared money shot taker and have everyone try to push me off hands. Maybe I'll size this down to 1000 - 1200 or so.

Yea I'm going to do it, the point of the thread was to try and be more prepared and not to make common "new stakes" mistakes. Thanks.

Thanks, this will definitely be my mindset although I wont be completely avoiding regs.

Thanks, this is kind of what I expected. I guess I'll have to wait and see how big the difference in aggression is. Are 3 bets with 87s in position common at 5/10? Or are you just targeting certain players wide opening ranges?

Just keep in mind how many buyins you have vs. the regs...they’re in a position to flip 50-100 times more than you are. By flip, I mean engage in all those small edge scenarios we like to create or get ourselves into in poker. It would be a shame if you ran bad in a handful of those scenarios and are out of the game before golden opportunities against the fishiest of opponents present themselves.

Sounds like you have a favorable player pool. You're crushing $1/$2 NL and have a double-digit BB/Hr in $2/$5 NL, albeit a small sample.

Might as well take a shot, keeping in mind that the best players at the table will be targeting the spots quickly, so you may have limited opportunities. The absolute $ swings may also impact/tilt. Winning 5 BBs/Hr at $10/$10 NL is hard to do over the long-term.

GL!

“Targeting spots quickly”... I like that and you’re right. But it’s better to live to play another day than to miss a shot due to impatience. It’s absolutely okay to not make anything of the session. I feel like it’s common for us all to expect a solid win or loss when shot taking. Maybe I’m using this thread to coach myself, but I’ll say it anyway: plan on winning big by your 10th session when moving up...until then, you’re just looking to stay in the game.

I think you're right about the player pool. All of my samples last year were LOL small but the 1/2 numbers did catch my eye. I've already put in 28 hours of 1/2 this year based on last years results just to see how inflated it was. So far the rate is holding but I don't expect it to be real over a significant sample for 500-1000 hours. Down swings always find you eventually. Targeting 400 hours for this year. Maybe I'll have a better feel after that.

Thanks for the input. I'm fine with limited opportunities. I wont be rushing to get my stack in on a flip. I wont be re-buying either. I'll take some notes, post some hand histories and go down to 2/5 or 1/2 and cool off / digest.

Its not unusual for players at 5/10 to willfully intimidate lower-stakes players, especially if they are playing short in a deep-stacked game.

Its a much smaller gap from 2/5 to 5/10, because you see much more deep stack play in 2/5.

If you still think of yourself as a 1/2 player i think that is a bad mentality to bring into 5/10 or higher.

65/hr winrate is fantastic, though less important than your overall mental awareness of how well you are playing and skill differentials vs other players. Being able to review a session and understand what hands you made a mistake is super important, as is recognizing the best decisions you made in challenging/marginal spots.

Yeah, that's why I don't want to buy in for less than 100 BB. I've played stacks up to about 3k during 2/5 sessions but usually cash out around that point. I would probably cash out shortly after crossing 3k at 10/10 as well at least until I got a better feel for the players and the game.

I just think of myself as a poker player more so than 1/2 or 1/3 or 2/5. Last year I focused on 2/5 and I think it really helped my game at all levels. This year I want to at least dip a toe in at the next level to see what I can learn. Oh and I gave the wrong rate in the earlier post, that was unfiltered all hours last year. Filtered for 2/5 it was a bit lower at $58/hr but still better than I expected to be able to maintain at the start of the year.

I'll definitely be taking notes and posting hand histories after each session. Thanks.