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Shortie shoves pre-deal, 2 callers - Wake up with AKo in bb (1-2 NL) Shortie shoves pre-deal, 2 callers - Wake up with AKo in bb (1-2 NL)

08-21-2014 , 10:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuds38
I have AKo in big blind with both callers covered... what do do?
Here's what I'd recommend:

1. Ask yourself what range you think the Villains who called have
2. Figure out what part of that range you think calls a shove. Do you agree that Villains would have raised strong hands and are folding almost everything to a shove? If so, would you shove aces in this spot?
3. Calculate an EV

I think this choice is a clear second best:

Or you could look at your cards, decide they're pretty-looking, shove, and then create a thread on 2+2 hoping that everyone tells you you did the right thing.
Shortie shoves pre-deal, 2 callers - Wake up with AKo in bb (1-2 NL) Quote
08-22-2014 , 04:31 AM
grow your bankroll before playing again if this decision is tough for you sir. IMO SHOVE
Shortie shoves pre-deal, 2 callers - Wake up with AKo in bb (1-2 NL) Quote
08-22-2014 , 09:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Doomed
Well you are going to be oop vs the all in short stack which I don't like. Also AK isn't even a pair or made hand so I am not too fond of this spot. I'm going to say min raise and fold to a shove. That way we know where we are at in the hand.
Not cool bro, not cool! (Funny, but not cool)

Whats crazy tho is that you see this type of play occur.

One thing, that is a stupid play, and its even stupideder that it works is; raising to 30 less than the shorter of the 2 villians stack, and bet that on the flop if \ when checked to you (works best when you are first to act). It blows my mind how often this works. Its a funky counter intutive play, but something to keep in mind, maybe not with AK as thats good to see all cards, but some of those small pairs that you might want to give yourself a chance to fold them out on the flop. Obv player type appropriate.

I dont think that this is the time for it, but it reminded me of that play.

Masta--
Shortie shoves pre-deal, 2 callers - Wake up with AKo in bb (1-2 NL) Quote
08-22-2014 , 01:04 PM
Well I think the biggest piece of the puzzle is what range would these guys flat a blind ship with? Lets just assume it is never 1010+ and AK. Hat leaves AQ-A10... If they are bad there are lots more combos of Ax. The. Maybe they flat 55-99 also. That means that the vast majority of their range is a dominated hand, especially once you throw in some KQ and KJ type hands. So we don't want those hands fold correct?

So my point being even when they do call a 3 bet with the described hand we are either racing(as a slight dog) or best case scenario we have them dominated. With 55-99 there is going to be at least one over card if not more a vast majority of the time. So how could it not be correct to a bet and then open ship every single flop? We are first to act and we open the door to let our opponents make huge mistakes vs us.

That my friends is the max EV line here in This spot vs a blind all in and to passive flats in my humble opinion. And I'm not saying shipping it is bad, I am just saying there is definatley some argument to playing the hand differently.
Shortie shoves pre-deal, 2 callers - Wake up with AKo in bb (1-2 NL) Quote
08-22-2014 , 03:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by au4all
Here's what I'd recommend:

1. Ask yourself what range you think the Villains who called have
2. Figure out what part of that range you think calls a shove. Do you agree that Villains would have raised strong hands and are folding almost everything to a shove? If so, would you shove aces in this spot?
3. Calculate an EV

I think this choice is a clear second best:

Or you could look at your cards, decide they're pretty-looking, shove, and then create a thread on 2+2 hoping that everyone tells you you did the right thing.
Gee I'm sorry for posting a live low-stakes NL hand in the Live Low-stakes NL forum. I didn't just look at my hand and shove, but I also didn't want to include a bunch of analysis in the OP because someone quickly responded and told me to pose the question as is rather than influencing the discussion early on.

Anywho, my thoughts were similar to most of y'all... it's great news if a shove can get a low / medium pocket pair to fold, and if they call it's still not a disaster. I think my image at this point was TAG, but I had been caught bluffing in a couple mid-sized pots. That might mean pocket pairs are more stubborn if they're perceptive players, but I think it also means AT thru AQ might also pay me off. I didn't really have any reads on the CO, but I think sb would have reraised any premium hand and he had frequently limp-folded preflop so a call-fold seems plausible too.

You make a decent case for the non-shove reraise, Mr_Doomed, but we're not always first to act as you suggested since one caller was in sb. What do we do if the sb calls my reraise then shoves a flop that I whiffed? I like the idea that mid-pairs might put in more money preflop then fold on flops with high cards, but I'm still afraid stacks aren't deep enough for it to work here.

Last edited by tuds38; 08-22-2014 at 03:20 PM.
Shortie shoves pre-deal, 2 callers - Wake up with AKo in bb (1-2 NL) Quote
08-22-2014 , 04:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuds38
Gee I'm sorry for posting a live low-stakes NL hand in the Live Low-stakes NL forum. I didn't just look at my hand and shove, but I also didn't want to include a bunch of analysis in the OP because someone quickly responded and told me to pose the question as is rather than influencing the discussion early on.

Anywho, my thoughts were similar to most of y'all... it's great news if a shove can get a low / medium pocket pair to fold, and if they call it's still not a disaster. I think my image at this point was TAG, but I had been caught bluffing in a couple mid-sized pots. That might mean pocket pairs are more stubborn if they're perceptive players, but I think it also means AT thru AQ might also pay me off. I didn't really have any reads on the CO, but I think sb would have reraised any premium hand and he had frequently limp-folded preflop so a call-fold seems plausible too.

You make a decent case for the non-shove reraise, Mr_Doomed, but we're not always first to act as you suggested since one caller was in sb. What do we do if the sb calls my reraise then shoves a flop that I whiffed? I like the idea that mid-pairs might put in more money preflop then fold on flops with high cards, but I'm still afraid stacks aren't deep enough for it to work here.
Ahh I see. That is a pretty important piece of the equation. Not being first to act makes it a pretty standard shove. Misread villians position. Still the play is something that could work in a similar position but not being 1st to act kinda makes my post irrelevant :-(
Shortie shoves pre-deal, 2 callers - Wake up with AKo in bb (1-2 NL) Quote

      
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