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set slow or fast play vs recreational set slow or fast play vs recreational

01-11-2019 , 06:23 AM
1/3 NL, 1,5k eff.

BB is aggressive loose recreational, has massive tendency to overplay marginal hands regardless who he's up against or board texture. Can also semibluff, but mostly passive with draws.
Overplay example, Called 3bet from a total nit(BBvsBU) with QTo, then min raised Cbet on a board AQT rainbow, then 3/4pot bet blank turn, and check back river.

Hero/UTG raise JdJc 20$, 4callers. Flop AdJh3s, pot 100. Hero Bet 50, only BB calls. I expect BB to sq AA, AK and AQ but pretty much any other ace is in his range.

Turn 5d. check-Hero bet 115-BB raise to 340. BB can easily have 42s, also he can raise AJ, A5, A3. He can possibly bluff with pair+gutshot, and could continue river. I block Jd and Ad is on the board, so he doesn't have strong flush draws, apart of 3combos(he is heavily weighted towards overplaying hands rather then bluffs) I don't think he will fold 2pairs if I shove now(he's very bad), but there is are some runouts where he could slow down, Q,K, 2, 4. Is also possible he's going to bet the river and commit himself. From what I've seen he has much less agro on the river in comparison to flop&turn.

What do you like better on the turn, 3bet shove or call?
set slow or fast play vs recreational Quote
01-11-2019 , 08:53 AM
Almost nobody has a turn raise/fold range. Pot is $880 with your call, and you have $1090 left, so you have 3-bet options other than a shove. Definitely raising, but need more info on if he's the type to see the shove or a click back as wider, and how committed he will feel if he calls a click-back.
set slow or fast play vs recreational Quote
01-11-2019 , 09:55 AM
Stick it in his eye
set slow or fast play vs recreational Quote
01-11-2019 , 10:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garick
Definitely raising, but need more info on if he's the type to see the shove or a click back as wider, and how committed he will feel if he calls a click-back.
Hard to say how he will see it. 3bet shove turn looks very strong, but click back looks same strong, but even could look stronger. I'd choose between shove or call, think shove is better then smaller 3bet.
set slow or fast play vs recreational Quote
01-11-2019 , 10:23 AM
Flat and shoving all rivers. Let's use our position. Not many bad rivers
set slow or fast play vs recreational Quote
01-11-2019 , 10:35 AM
If he has 24s we can assume he also has A-rag suited hands here so all the 2 pair Ax combos.

Calling allows us to let him keep hands he is over valuing in for a river bet/potential call. The question is, if we shove turn does our range look so strong that he could fold these Ax 2 pair hands. Also the question is whether he is good enough to do so. If we expect to get insta called by these hands then pile. Do we expect him to bet/call river with these hands as well?

If we flat are we folding vs Diamond, or 2/4 river? I do not expect we are so there are not too many river cards to be worried about. I suspect flatting lets villain think we are leading more to strong Ax hands and he will still go for value on the river. Having Jd lowers the amount of FD type hands he can have and do this.

Depending on villain's river tendencies I like to flat to give them a change to hang themselves. Vs better opponents I like a shove.

I hate clicking/raising small, think this is the worst option.
set slow or fast play vs recreational Quote
01-11-2019 , 12:12 PM
I'm not a fan of playing big bloated pots OOP multiway with some tricky players involved, but I'm assuming our preflop raise was simply to be able to put stacks in play when hitting our set, so fine.

Cripes we're deep, ha, we've still got an SPR of 15 even with a raise and everyone calling, lol.

I'm never putting BB on AA due to just overcalling the world preflop, so if he has that I'm likely going broke (even though I've never put anything remotely close $1500 into a pot ever in ~4300+ hours of 1/3 NL, although I rarely play deep).

I PSB the flop. No Ace is going to fold to one bet this deep and even very speculative hands might wager a call this deep. Let's build this pot ASAP.

Turn is where I start becoming very uncomfortable deep and basically I start slowing down in this spot cuz I don't have the nuts. Against this guy that may be incorrect though. Has he ever gotten in hugenormous $1500 stacks in a lol way though? I've only seen $1500 stacks go in like exactly twice in ~4300 hours, so I have a real aversion to attempting to do this against anyone. I probably just call the turn check/raise and see what happens on the river (likely never folding and possibly still open to a raise depending on size of bet I'm facing), but it's possible I'm missing huge value (ETA: Although as others have mentioned is he capable of folding worse facing extreme heat to a turn reraise?).

GsucksatdeepstackG
set slow or fast play vs recreational Quote
01-11-2019 , 12:43 PM
I bet flop bigger, $65 or so. No one is folding an Ace here, so start building a bigger pot. With $230 in the pot, I'd have continued the turn for a bet of around $150 (65% pot). If he check raises you here, it's to an amount of around $500ish. Your options moving forward from that point are much easier as he has committed more of his stack and is likely to call off either a turn raise/shove or a river shove...if he doesn't shove river himself...and obviously you can never be folding this hand.

As played: I think against this villain your goal should absolutely be to get stacks in and to do this we need to know more about your image. Are you a player capable of shoving 1 pair or bluffs for 1k on the river? I know a lot of players that if they shove 1k on river, End of story they are nutted and it's just literally never a bluff.

I think an important aspect to note is that is your opponent can not have top pair+flush draw. I find players more willing to check raise with top pair+ flush draw then naked flush draws or flush draws/gutshot draws in these spots.

This is a tricky spot but I don't think there are any bad plays. Flatting is an option if you think opponent has a made hand and will likely bet river, you'll still get stacks in at that point. Jamming and clicking back are options too. A click back could make your opponent feel committed on the river and unable to fold. A Jam is targeting his two pair+ hands and and KQdd.

Before I give a final answer, I'm going to ask you a question about Villain. How much is he in the game for? This can have an impact on how villains play in these spots, so I try to keep track if V's are up, down, up a lot, down a lot, in the game for a lot and just got up, etc.
set slow or fast play vs recreational Quote
01-11-2019 , 01:46 PM
I go a bit higher on the flop, but half pot's not terrible. As played, I also go slightly higher on turn.

Turn options are wide open. Whatever you can do to get the most money in. I normally don't min-raise, but this isn't a terrible spot for it. Also, I'm not a fan of slow-playing, because a heart or diamond on the river is scary for both of us, and I'd hate to face a big river bet on a heart or diamond unless it fills us up (or better ).

So, click it back or shove -- whichever will work best vs. V.
set slow or fast play vs recreational Quote
01-12-2019 , 07:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javanewt
Turn options are wide open. Whatever you can do to get the most money in. I normally don't min-raise, but this isn't a terrible spot for it. Also, I'm not a fan of slow-playing, because a heart or diamond on the river is scary for both of us, and I'd hate to face a big river bet on a heart or diamond unless it fills us up (or better ).
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There is only diamond draw.
set slow or fast play vs recreational Quote
01-12-2019 , 07:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtm1208
I bet flop bigger, $65 or so. No one is folding an Ace here, so start building a bigger pot. With $230 in the pot, I'd have continued the turn for a bet of around $150 (65% pot). If he check raises you here, it's to an amount of around $500ish. Your options moving forward from that point are much easier as he has committed more of his stack and is likely to call off either a turn raise/shove or a river shove...if he doesn't shove river himself...and obviously you can never be folding this hand.

As played: I think against this villain your goal should absolutely be to get stacks in and to do this we need to know more about your image. Are you a player capable of shoving 1 pair or bluffs for 1k on the river? I know a lot of players that if they shove 1k on river, End of story they are nutted and it's just literally never a bluff.

I think an important aspect to note is that is your opponent can not have top pair+flush draw. I find players more willing to check raise with top pair+ flush draw then naked flush draws or flush draws/gutshot draws in these spots.

This is a tricky spot but I don't think there are any bad plays. Flatting is an option if you think opponent has a made hand and will likely bet river, you'll still get stacks in at that point. Jamming and clicking back are options too. A click back could make your opponent feel committed on the river and unable to fold. A Jam is targeting his two pair+ hands and and KQdd.

Before I give a final answer, I'm going to ask you a question about Villain. How much is he in the game for? This can have an impact on how villains play in these spots, so I try to keep track if V's are up, down, up a lot, down a lot, in the game for a lot and just got up, etc.
He's up a lot, probably played a long session, build up 4k stack(no idea how much he invested). I've joined couple hours ago, played quite agro(many good starters, but people might be irritated), but was not involved in any big pot. Last session I've played vs villain was a while ago, so no dinamics/additional info.
set slow or fast play vs recreational Quote
01-12-2019 , 07:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonkeyRock

Depending on villain's river tendencies I like to flat to give them a change to hang themselves. Vs better opponents I like a shove.

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He's very bad, don't think he'll fold 2pairs vs turn shove often, he's playing more carefull on the river. The question is what's harder for opponent to fold a vulnerable hand he raised for value on the turn, or check-fold on a non blank river(K,Q,2,4,diamond), if semibluffs turn are very small portion of his range.
set slow or fast play vs recreational Quote
01-12-2019 , 08:21 AM
Click it back
set slow or fast play vs recreational Quote
01-12-2019 , 12:36 PM
Sorry, thought I saw two hearts on the flop!

If he's not folding two pair on the turn, just click it back or shove, which I like regardless.
set slow or fast play vs recreational Quote
01-12-2019 , 05:11 PM
Reopen the betting ott, whether shoving or CIB depends I suppose, but that's tough to judge from here. The crux of it is that JJ is by far your most profitable hand on AJxxs, so you must squeeze every value drop from it.
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01-12-2019 , 11:31 PM
Since you think villain is stacking off with 2p and worse sets, and maybe some combo draws just jam
set slow or fast play vs recreational Quote

      
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