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Old 10-07-2018, 07:39 PM   #1
jarheads0331
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Angry set over set could I have folded?

Hero MP2 66 bb effective with pocket 6's

villain is in the cut off, table image is a solid tight aggressive player seems to be winning has shown down very few bluffs.

Hero raises 2.5 bb
villain 3 bets 9bb

I believe I'm behind based on how he plays. While AKs is in his range I haven't seem him 3 bet once without a pocket pair. but I'm hoping to take a stab and flop a set on him. Yes I know 7.5:1 to hit not good math.

hero calls

FLOP: 10c Qc 6d (hit the set yay for me im gonna get paid)


Hero checks to the raiser
Villian bets 5 bb
Hero raises 15 bb
Villian 4 bets 25bb
Hero shoves remainder
Villian calls

Villains 4 bet sizing seems small to me and that's the first time (post flop) I think I could be behind, I mean hes begging for a call right? While miles ahead of AA and KK I'm behind QQ and 10 10. JJ doesn't make sense nor would 99 or 88 with that sizing.

Villian shows down with QQ...oh well, cooler? or should of trusted my read on a better set given his table image. I would never consider folding here with most players.

I'd love anyones input.
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Old 10-07-2018, 07:45 PM   #2
SABR42
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Re: set over set could I have folded?

Fold pre stacks are too shallow.

No, can't fold as played.
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Old 10-07-2018, 07:56 PM   #3
jarheads0331
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Re: set over set could I have folded?

agree on the pre fold, what can I say theres a reason I play 1/2...
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Old 10-07-2018, 08:10 PM   #4
Nozsr
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Re: set over set could I have folded?

We ought not to be raising 66 in early position.

Setmine should be done as cheaply as possible.

Makes it easier to fold it if we do get raised.
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Old 10-07-2018, 09:20 PM   #5
Garick
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Re: set over set could I have folded?

OP please don't post results. It biases responses. Get up to your last decision point and stop posting "Hero ?"

But no, after we call pre we are always GII here
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Old 10-07-2018, 09:51 PM   #6
samo
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Re: set over set could I have folded?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SABR42 View Post
Fold pre stacks are too shallow.

No, can't fold as played.
+1. Generally, shoot for a minimum 12-1 on set mining opportunities. 15-1 may be even more prudent.
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Old 10-07-2018, 09:55 PM   #7
Minatorr
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Re: set over set could I have folded?

FOLD PRE
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Old 10-07-2018, 10:23 PM   #8
branch0095
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Re: set over set could I have folded?

"Hero MP2 66 bb effective..." That's all I needed to read. No you can't fold.

Seriously though, just fold 66 PF with such a shallow stack. If you're this concerned about whether you could have found a fold once you hit exactly what you were looking to hit with this short of a stack, that's just reinforcing the idea of folding pre.
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Old 10-07-2018, 11:31 PM   #9
jarheads0331
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Re: set over set could I have folded?

samo can you give an example im not exactly sure what your talking about 12 to one on my money?
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Old 10-08-2018, 01:13 AM   #10
branch0095
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Re: set over set could I have folded?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jarheads0331 View Post
samo can you give an example im not exactly sure what your talking about 12 to one on my money?
It means that you want the effective stacks to be at least 12x (some believe 15x) the size of the preflop raise in order for it to be profitable to set-mine with a small PP. IE: it's $15 to see the flop, both your stack and the raiser's stack should be at least $180 in order for there to be enough potential profit to try to hit a set. You're only flopping a set about 1 out of 8 times and you're obviously not going to get stacks every time you do so. So you really need to have this type of stack depth so you're making enough money the times you do flop a set and double up or stack someone to make up for all the times you miss or make a set but don't win a big pot with it.
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Old 10-08-2018, 01:39 PM   #11
krilleater
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Re: set over set could I have folded?

Fold pre, but also note how terribly V played this hand for future reference when setmining actually makes sense.

The min-4bet is ridiculously nutty. You can't fold given the earlier decisions, but IMO his range here is literally TT/QQ - he just shoves his overpairs and AcKc. He was just putting in the minimum to make sure you had the chance to shove yourself.
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Old 10-08-2018, 04:10 PM   #12
jarheads0331
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Re: set over set could I have folded?

Quote:
Originally Posted by branch0095 View Post
It means that you want the effective stacks to be at least 12x (some believe 15x) the size of the preflop raise in order for it to be profitable to set-mine with a small PP. IE: it's $15 to see the flop, both your stack and the raiser's stack should be at least $180 in order for there to be enough potential profit to try to hit a set. You're only flopping a set about 1 out of 8 times and you're obviously not going to get stacks every time you do so. So you really need to have this type of stack depth so you're making enough money the times you do flop a set and double up or stack someone to make up for all the times you miss or make a set but don't win a big pot with it.
I see now. thanks.
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Old 10-08-2018, 08:22 PM   #13
krolik
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Re: set over set could I have folded?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garick View Post
OP please don't post results. It biases responses. Get up to your last decision point and stop posting "Hero ?"

But no, after we call pre we are always GII here
I agree with this. And fold pre.
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Old 10-09-2018, 02:32 AM   #14
6bet me
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Re: set over set could I have folded?

Decision Point 1: Opening this hand is fine in the HJ, but depending on the table dynamics, you may want to raise a lot bigger than 2.5bbs on a low stakes live table.

Decision Point 2: Spew. Pure spew. This is a very easy fold against the 3bet, given stack sizes.

Decision Point 3: I like that you checked to the PFR.

Decision Point 4: I like the x/r here. You can balance it out easily with a lot of draws.

Decision Point 5: I like the jam as played.

Summary: Your only huge mistake here was calling the 3bet preflop.
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