Played some £1/£1 last night.
I had about £215 in my stack when a new villain (NV) joined.
He straddled in his first UTG but other than that very little information.
About 35 years old, eastern European.

NV limps for £1 UTG (didn't straddle this time).

Solid player in UTG+2 also limps.

I have 66 UTG+3 and also limp.

HJ and button both fold.
Blinds check.

Flop is 36Tddc

Check, check, check, solid player bets £2.

I think if I just call then I can get another few calls and solid player will bet turn, so I call.

SB calls, BB folds, NV/UTG calls.

Turn As.
Check, check, check, I bet £6 (pot is still only £12 + £1 rake).

Only NV calls.

River Kc, so board is 36TAK ddcsc.

NV checks.

I bet £15 (into a pot of £23+£2).

NV raises to £55 (with about £75 back).

Hero?

Easy shove. If he has TT/AA/KK, sad times. 33/AT/KT/A6/A3 very possible.

Bet flop, bet turn bigger.

QJdd is also a possible hand.

I don't understand the line, you call flop and say solid player will likely bet turn but then you don't give him a chance... Should bet turn bigger either way, that ace nails peoples floating range. I'd lead flop for 5, as played lead turn for 10. I do think villain has a lot of hands that can call a shove on river that you beat so I'd just shove. With no raise preflop the only thing you should be scared of is TT and JQdd exactly. Since we don't know villain JQo is a possibility too I guess if he's donk enough. Folding isn't an option IMO, and raising is probably slightly better than calling

I do expect him to continue, but he checks (he's to my right).

I'm in last position (of those in the hand). Would you really raise from £2 to £5on the flop?
I agree the turn bet probably should have been bigger.

He might limp UTG with TT, KK, AA in the hope that he can re-raise.
You would think he would do something more aggressive on the flop with KK or AA though.

JQdd is possible. JQo seems a bit strange - why limp UTG with that?
QcJc seems reasonable - perhaps has backdoor on flop then calls with the gutter for implied odds on the turn?

Oops I should really avoid posting before my first cup of coffee, for some reason I thought solid player had position on you. Yes I would raise the flop up after the initial bet, probably to 8. Diamonds and tens likely still call and it sets you up for a pretty nice turn bet of 15-20 depending on how many callers. I do agree that AA/KK might go for limp reraise but still don't think you can ever fold river. I see it like this:

Hands that beat you = JQ,AA,KK,TT = 16 combinations + 6 + 6 +6 = 34 combos, this includes all offsuit combos of JQ as well as suited.
Hands you beat that c/r river = AK,KT,AT = 9 + 9 + 9 = 27 combos. Can also add a few combos of random missed flush draw bluffs.

I definitely think all the two pair hands are in his check raise range. If we discount some of the JQ offsuit combos he's basically as likely to bet with something you beat as he is with something that beats you and you're getting 2:1 to call ($40 / $90ish pot). Actually thinking about it this way, shoving may not be as profitable as I first thought, he obv folds all missed draws and may even find hero folds with some of the two pairs. Never folds anything you beat IMO.

Sorry for dollars instead of pounds, I'm a US noob and don't know how to make that symbol

Definitely raise the flop. I'm probably just calling the river to his check raise.

I like your thinking about solid V, but it really only applies to HU play. A solid V will not speculate any further on the Turn unless he hits the Turn pretty hard.

You should protect against the flush on the Flop as it will kill the action (or cause you to lose the hand). I like 5 or 6 here, although 8 isn't too much multiway as you could get the 'domino' effect if the first player calls .. et.

This is a perfect Turn card. Depending on the number of players left in the hand I might show some slight weakness by betting 'only' 2x my Flop bet or less ... and throw in a bit of a delay to make them think you are worried about the Ace a bit. If you get c/r then that it perfect .. most of the time.

AP you should only call the River raise IMO. You will only get a call from a straight and possibly top 2. He doesn't have a clue how strong you are but if you raise he will only call with something that beats you more often than you win more chips.

Why aren't you raising PF? Sets are hard to come by and you want to know where the Aces are, don't you? Your flat on the Flop would look weak then but the Ace on the Turn may kill your action with this line. Especially IP, if you don't hit a set then the Ace on the Turn is a perfect card to take it down with if the action stays the same.

More than one way to skin the cate ... GL

Terrible sizing. Raise pre, raise flop bet turn all for 2/3-3/4 pot sized bets. You are missing tons of value. On the flop you don't want tons of callers you want to raise and charge all the draws. As played you have no clue what anyone's range is or what sort of hands they could of backed into.

X2. Bet/raise more at every possible chance.

Grunch: you've grossly underrepped (undervalued) your hand and hit the lotto that you're still getting paid somehow. He could somehow have QJ since he's unknown but he has a lot more 2p. Keep betting and stop slow playing.

Awful play on just about every street.

Pre: Your pp is probably the best hand, so raise. Also, if you hit your set, you want to be able to shovel chips in, so raise. RAISE.

Flop: Probably the worst play so far. Stealing a line from another thread, this call would make Jesus cry. This lol 2bb call is tantamount to a check. You flopped a monster, so get paid yo!

Don't worry about trying to keep others in the hand. As you saw, even a lowly 2bb bet is enough to fold out the majority of limpers when they miss, so trying to keep them hanging around is a fools game, as they aren't going to contribute another dime. Another reason limpers should be punished and abused.

I can't even comment on the rest of the hand, as it's so absurdly butchered already. I mean, here we are on the turn and the pot is only 12bb's despite us flopping a set.

As played I'm calling NV's river raise and I don't think shipping here is the best play.. Does he ever call with worse? Anyway I agree with other comments, def raise flop and bet bigger on turn.

NH

If its a nitty table you can raise. If its a all happy table or there is any aggression factor behind you at all then limping is likely the way play. Raising puts you in rough post flop spots assuming you don't get blasted off preflop by exactly the kind if hand you want to set line against.

Thanks

I think at weak tables, you may want to get in cheap with drawing hands and then exploit the fact that players don't correctly allow for the size of the pot.

Well, the 2bb bet only folded out 1 from 5 players so that doesn't really add up.
FWIW I'm pretty sure they are all folding if I raise pot.

Yes, it would be lovely if people could shovel us chips when we hit a set.
Trouble is, if they don't have anything they aint gonna!

I like the way that when faced with a hand that plays out with a tricky decision, it's easy to say that you should have bet bigger to define your hand.
But then again, not many people post hands of:

"Flop a monster, raise big against a passive set of opponents and they all fold."

I'm not saying I played the hand perfectly by any means. I'm not even pretending to be good at poker. On the other hand it's just very easy to judge things conditioning on what happened afterwards. Like I said, I think if I raise anything reasonable on the flop they all fold.

Why? Because we have 3 checks, 1 tiny bet and then no raises.
And then on the turn a £6 bet folds out 2 out of the 3 players.

It is possible to sometimes slowplay a hand, even if you take the risk of someone outdrawing you.

It's possible but it isn't good.

That's a draw heavy board. Chances are good that someone wants to see the turn. If they all fold because they have nothing what have you lost by betting larger? Nothing. They'd fold to any bet. It is rare to check a big hand on a draw heavy board and have an opponent improve enough to put money in behind where they would not have before. Usually at that point they've beaten you. They also probably would have paid more to see the card if the most likely hands are in play. Generally speaking slow playing is for the birds in most situations. The arguments for are not really defensible.

At weak tables, I open my raising range and get more aggro, pushing weak-tights around and scooping up dead money. Playing weak-tight along with them is bad imo.
Isn't it expected to make an over-bet on the flop in limp pots?

You're just losing SOOOOOOOO much value playing so passive. You shouldn't be worrying about trying to keep the weak hands in here, you should be seeking value from second-best hands and strong draws.

I would say raise to 5 pre to try and bloat the pot and narrow others ranges in case of flopping a set and to give yourself some fold equity post flop, on the flop im definitely betting out probably 5 or 6 as played i would probably be raising the bet on the flop to 12 and following it up with a non diamond turn with a good sized bet. on river i think you call and just hope he doesnt show up with something better, seems possibly spewy knowing standard european and straddling first hand? Definitely lost a lot of value by checking flop, need to be getting it in when you flop good 100% of the time

grunch. shove as played. what do you lose to? one combo of QJdd or a horribly limped 3 combos of TT pre? 6 combos of horribly played KK+? realistically he's raising TT+ almost always pre. you beat all two pairs and bottom set

I tend to agree with Bullshorn's analysis to the T. Playing limped pots for lots of money is really unfortunate more often then not and especially here imo. no to slowplaying, it is not optimal here, ever. Don't play limp poker, at these stakes. This

Cliffs: I called and he showed QJo.
He limped UTG with that, then called ten high flop (for a tiny bet), then called a 1/2 pot bet with a gutshot.

I think his limp is the bad part. The rest he is probably getting implied odds.
I felt I could see the flush come in and slow down, or even a straight that was available to draw from the flop. But this backdoor straight surprised me.

I'll try to raise more!
Pretty sure everyone is folding to a flop raise on this occasion though.
And could have made a good pot from the call on the flop (when the pot was only £7).

You still don't believe it. Hat ever may oral not have worked this time means nothing. Overall, the correct play is clear.

I think you are missing a point. You need to be raising for value. There are lots of draws that could be coming along with great odds meaning you are missing value and they are playing perfectly against you. The fact that the seem like they don't have anything could just mean they have gut shot draw or flush draw of some kind. You can't argue that not raising is not a mistake because it most certainly is.

The idea of this is to take some feed back and realize your leaks. Your lean my friend is your bet sizing. You need to be looking to extract value with your monster hands as you get so few of them. We don't want to be worried about them "not having anything". If they have nothing the won't pay you offered anyways. Or they hit there draw for cheap and you lose the pot. A 10 high board with straight and flush draws smakes players limping ranges. Bet your hand is my main point here.

Edit: Your flop call was the worst part of the hand actually. You let someone get there by not betting your hand and it actually cost you far more money. Also him callin a the flop with 2 overs to that small of a bet on the flop is not a mistake. You not raising flop is.

You are being results oriented. Fact is, if you flop a set and nobody else has anything, you are rarely winning much anyway. By playing it the way you did, you basically win the absolute minimum when anyone has anything to continue with. Including lots of Tx combos, and lots of flush draw combos. You also give amazing odds to anyone with a draw of any kind.

Calling the flop makes it nearly impossible to play for stacks on the turn or river. Raise to $8 on the flop and get a caller, now we can bet a lot more on the turn, and a LOT more on the river. Ultimately, you are going to need somebody to have something for you to get paid, but you have to bet enough that you actually do get paid the times that somebody hits 2-pair on the turn or river.


Imagine for a second that one of your villain's had a flush draw in this hand. People hate folding flush draws. As you played it, you bet a total of $8 on the 2 streets that you can possibly extract value from a flush draw, then $15 on the river, where they are never calling unless they hit their flush or top pair.

This. Bullshorn on the money.