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Old 07-09-2018, 09:20 PM   #1
Chicagodude
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Set of 44s, Fold Here?

NWI NL 1/2
Hero is about 2 hours into a session and at 180 or so. He has 44 on the button. There are 4 limpers and Hero just calls the two. Do you squeeze with 44? I never do. Maybe that's a mistake in itself. SB folds.
BB is Villain. He has between 300 and 360 before the hand. He checks his option. He's a 25 yo WG and a good guy. Hero would say he's definitely winning at 1/2 over the last year. He has more gamble than Hero and makes big calls. He also bluffs when people check to him.
POT $13
Flop 457
BB bets $5
It folds to Hero who makes it $25
BB reraises to $100
He tells Hero "Fold, I have you beat."
Hero thinks he may be drawing dead against 777 or 555. A made straight is also possible. Hero doesn't think he would ever reraise 100 with a flush draw. Hero does think villain plays 2 pair big, and this could be a reraise with 2 pair. The BB and could have anything. I did not think it was a bluff but I never fold sets on the flop. What would you do here? What's best practice?
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Old 07-09-2018, 09:34 PM   #2
Mr Spyutastic
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Re: Set of 44s, Fold Here?

Pf limp is std. I wouldn't advise raising as you will often get called in many spots and hate almost every flop.

Flop I would say, "No I have you beat so why don't you fold?" and just gii.
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Old 07-09-2018, 09:34 PM   #3
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Re: Set of 44s, Fold Here?

Limped pots are the stone worst. There’s a better than decent chance you’re a dog against his range which makes folding possible. Still probably just getting it in w your stack.
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Old 07-09-2018, 09:46 PM   #4
daniel9861
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Re: Set of 44s, Fold Here?

Bet/3bet postflop w/ money behind is always nutted in my experience.
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Old 07-09-2018, 09:48 PM   #5
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Re: Set of 44s, Fold Here?

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Originally Posted by daniel9861 View Post
Bet/3bet postflop w/ money behind is always nutted in my experience.
I never thought about that before but in my experience you are right. That's a good rule to follow.
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Old 07-09-2018, 09:49 PM   #6
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Re: Set of 44s, Fold Here?

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Originally Posted by Mr Spyutastic View Post
Pf limp is std. I wouldn't advise raising as you will often get called in many spots and hate almost every flop.

Flop I would say, "No I have you beat so why don't you fold?" and just gii.
That would have been a good thing to say, and it was the first time in my life I actively considered folding a set on the flop.
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Old 07-09-2018, 10:19 PM   #7
Calldown88
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Re: Set of 44s, Fold Here?

Raise pre. $15. If you get 4 callers who cares, you can still just purely setmine. If it goes heads up you will often flop the best hand with 1 pair & cbet take it down.

As played, I don't fold sets on 2 flush flopped. You're fairly short, get it in.
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Old 07-09-2018, 10:24 PM   #8
steve1238
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Re: Set of 44s, Fold Here?

I actually prefer a raise pf, and hope to fold out some of tv's crap that has you beat

Generally a set of 4s makes money against tptk and over pairs
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Old 07-09-2018, 11:51 PM   #9
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Re: Set of 44s, Fold Here?

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Originally Posted by Calldown88 View Post
Raise pre. $15. If you get 4 callers who cares, you can still just purely setmine. If it goes heads up you will often flop the best hand with 1 pair & cbet take it down.

As played, I don't fold sets on 2 flush flopped. You're fairly short, get it in.
With this logic you could just raise pre with every hand. "If everyone calls who cares just continue if you flop 2 pair+"
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Old 07-10-2018, 06:06 AM   #10
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Re: Set of 44s, Fold Here?

Yeah, I want a multiway pot with sets so I can win a lot of money but without raising there are going be the sorts of hands that flop straights so it's hard to say. I usually just set mine with small pairs.
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Old 07-10-2018, 06:46 AM   #11
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Re: Set of 44s, Fold Here?

With your stack size rip it in. He likely has 75 here and is trying to push out flush and straight draws. A winning player would more likely smooth call 55 or 77 and get you in on the turn
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Old 07-10-2018, 06:54 AM   #12
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Re: Set of 44s, Fold Here?

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With your stack size rip it in. He likely has 75 here and is trying to push out flush and straight draws. A winning player would more likely smooth call 55 or 77 and get you in on the turn
That's what I did. I shoved.

Was really wondering if it was standard here not to be able to get away from it.
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Old 07-10-2018, 07:41 AM   #13
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Re: Set of 44s, Fold Here?

V bet 5 OTF. I'd basically rule out 77/55 because of that. His hand looks more like 6hXh, where X = Q+.

I'd gii here
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Old 07-10-2018, 07:52 AM   #14
MikeStarr
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Re: Set of 44s, Fold Here?

Id never fold this in a million years, but after he gave his speech, I wouldnt fold in 2 million years. Odds are he has some sort of pair and draw type hand.
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Old 07-10-2018, 08:36 AM   #15
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Re: Set of 44s, Fold Here?

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Id never fold this in a million years, but after he gave his speech, I wouldnt fold in 2 million years. Odds are he has some sort of pair and draw type hand.
I really respect your opinion Mike, thanks, it was quite a spot as I never recall thinking of folding flop before in three years. This was the first time.
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Old 07-10-2018, 09:14 AM   #16
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Re: Set of 44s, Fold Here?

One more thing....I actually think its normally best to NOT raise the flop when you have a set in a limped pot on a massively draw heavy board. I normally just call and look for a safe turn. In this case though, I like the flop raise since the flop bet is so small.
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Old 07-10-2018, 09:38 AM   #17
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Re: Set of 44s, Fold Here?

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Originally Posted by daniel9861 View Post
Bet/3bet postflop w/ money behind is always nutted in my experience.
The small bet to large bet on the same street is also a common indicator of strength. And you can choose to do what you will with the verbal tell - I partly believe it... but it's still damn hard to fold a set, on the flop, with the given stacks.
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Old 07-10-2018, 09:47 AM   #18
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Re: Set of 44s, Fold Here?

Ship the nickels.
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Old 07-10-2018, 09:48 AM   #19
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Re: Set of 44s, Fold Here?

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Originally Posted by Man of Means View Post
The small bet to large bet on the same street is also a common indicator of strength. And you can choose to do what you will with the verbal tell - I partly believe it... but it's still damn hard to fold a set, on the flop, with the given stacks.
This post flop 3! rule is a good one for me to start following. That's why I post here. I never actually thought of that before.
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Old 07-10-2018, 09:49 AM   #20
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Re: Set of 44s, Fold Here?

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Originally Posted by Chicagodude View Post
This post flop 3! rule is a good one for me to start following. That's why I post here. I never actually thought of that before.
Be careful with "rules" on certain things, especially 90 blinds deep. I might fold 44 here to GG, but otherwise not.
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Old 07-10-2018, 09:52 AM   #21
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Re: Set of 44s, Fold Here?

what does GG mean? don't know that lingo
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Old 07-10-2018, 09:55 AM   #22
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Re: Set of 44s, Fold Here?

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what does GG mean? don't know that lingo
Poster GG....nit-tastic!
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Old 07-10-2018, 02:44 PM   #23
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Re: Set of 44s, Fold Here?

someone please explain why this is a call if V only has made hands
someone please explain why this is a raise if V has only made hands
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Old 07-10-2018, 02:59 PM   #24
MikeStarr
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Re: Set of 44s, Fold Here?

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Originally Posted by whatnow88 View Post
someone please explain why this is a call if V only has made hands
someone please explain why this is a raise if V has only made hands
Who says he has only made hands? His speech tells me he wants us to fold because he has a draw but probably a pair also.
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Old 07-10-2018, 03:51 PM   #25
snowman
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Re: Set of 44s, Fold Here?

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Be careful with "rules" on certain things, especially 90 blinds deep. I might fold 44 here to GG, but otherwise not.
LOL


as played , shove
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