Hero is LAGgish but has not gotten out of line postflop, and has been quiet a couple orbits, and a couple new players are in the game. Player to Hero's left likes to call a barrel or two with any pair. Player to his left (V2) makes sound decisions.

Hero wakes up with KK in the cutoff after one limper. Makes it $17. Button calls, V2 calls in SB, limper calls.

Flop KJ6 .

Check to Hero who cbets 21. Button and SB call, limper folds.

Turn 5 .

Anyone checking here?

Sounds too me like it's fairly easy to get 3streets of value with the calling station so I don't see the need to check.

No, Bet the turn 3/4 pot. You don't get thinking players at 1/2 and 1/3. Bet bet bet

But what hands can they call with? I've got the deck kind of crippled.

Obviously I fear QT drawing with infinite odds, but that's limit-poker thinking.

Need stacks.

And put pot size on each street so we don't have to add it up ourselves.

Stacks are all right around 200.

Pot is 69 on flop and 132 on turn.

Never checking. Bet 80 then 100

What hands will they call with otr?

Bet size on flop makes this all much more complicated than it needs to be. Bet 40 on the flop and if they both call, you have a less than PSB on the turn - or if you insist on getting fancy, on the river.

As played, you now need to bet both the turn and the river to get stacks in, unless they are falling for check turn/overbet river.

And as for the question of what are they calling with, who cares? You have the nuts.

Results:

Hero bets 40 on turn, both opponents fold. Crap!

I think if there is ever a time for a LAG to ease off on the gas, this is it. Showing weakness with my image is showing a LOT of weakness. I want random Jacks to improve and other hands to bluff the river. The only problem is that I can't overshove if an A comes to improve AJ, cause then Broadway also got there.

Flop bet is too small even though you have top set on a pretty dry board with only one obvious draw and a couple gutterballs. I'd have gone $40 on the flop and if they both called I would shove turn. With one caller I probably go $60 on turn and shove river.

checking here is bad

get max value from kx, 2p, sd, lower set

You mean check to the people who have QT and AK/Kx who you could get value from? Nope. All aboard, next stop: valuetown.

+1

they folded. so what. they both probably had incredibly weak hands and you weren't getting much value any way.

this is a b/b/shove all day. if you check, how are you ever getting stacks in

No one has AK given preflop action. No one has Kx given flop action. There is only one K left in the deck. I want to be paid by Jacks.

$40 is a reasonable cbet but I can't agree with going more than $30 in this specific spot when it's virtually certain no one has top pair or a decent draw. QT is the only hand that will come along.

Hand reading is my only strength, and I continue to try to turn it into EV.... most of the advice today seems sort of automaton-like, not ranging opponents carefully.

I ask again, what hands call a $40 turn bet except for the only live hand, QT? These are not total moron opponents likely to cross their fingers that JT might hold up in the face of repeated aggression. But if I check the turn, JT bets the river, and if it makes two pair it valuePwns itself.

obviously ranging your opponents is incredibly important.

but in llsnl games, or most of them at least, when you have a hand with strong value, the only concern is getting stacks in. your banking on their inability to fold medium strength hands, even if they do have a weak range. think about how much extra value you gain when they can't fold and you get stacks in, rather than the little extra value you can squeeze out when they hold an incredibly weak range.

yes, sometimes they are going to fold their mpnk when you continue showing aggression, but you make up for all of that the times you are able to stack them when find themselves with a hand they can't fold.

tbh, the games don't sound that great if your opponents are putting you on a range rather than just looking at their otc.

Seriously, I wish my game is as easy as how you describe.

Just nit up and bet bet bet with the nuts and they will pay you off.

The problem with this PARTICULAR hand is that there are so few medium strength hands in existence. If someone has a set the stacks will go in on the river regardless, so my concern is with blurghy one pair hands that are drawing dead. Is there no occasion for playing possum?

Instead I made the straightforward non-fancy play, and in THIS spot I gave up value. That's the point of this thread. Your point is excellent but I think it's a general point that in this PARTICULAR spot doesn't apply very well.

I agree with your reasoning in this particular hand. And there are times where I approach a hand like you have here and consider slowing down bc my opponents ranges are so weak.

Then I remember I'm a young punk who has zero fe and gets called down with trash hands regardless of how many times I get my money in good. So image does matter here I guess.

Worst case scenario is they fold and I continue to build an aggressive winning image. Best case is someone calls off their stack with Kx or Jx bc they don't believe me this time.

What the hell does the bold mean? How can you say you are LAGgish but haven't gotten out of line postflop?

That's like me saying I'm a whore but still haven't lost my virginity.

If you are LAGgish then the table should be viewing you as a bit of a luckbox spewmonkey when in reality your just playing looser. Thus, when you are LAGgish and you hit a monster hand, you play it fast and hard.

In this case, we bet each and every street so we can get value from draws, Jx, or Kx hands.

I probably bet 1/2 pot each street and I pray for the board to pair and hit one of my villains with trips .

fire away!