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Old 01-24-2016, 05:01 PM   #1
CamNewton3
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Scary enough river?

Game: Live 1/2
Hand: 98
Position: MP
Stack: 280$
Villain: (covers BTN) Really aggressive preflop and post flop, keeps min-raising with any kind of equity (FE or PE) on any flops. Also passive. Otherwise seems weak (young, hat, texting and doesnít pay attention to the game), never saw him before and he havenít showed much hands yet. Iíve been at the table for an hour and every time I opened the betting either pre or post-flop (4 times), he reraised me. He showed once and had a straight on a 3 flush board. I also reraised him a couple times, but never showed a bluff since he folded the only time I bluffed him.
Hero: I had a tight image preflop and aggressive postflop.

Preflop Action: UTG limps, UTG+1 whoís weak tight raises to 8$, I called, V called, BB called and UTG called. (40$)
Flop: Q63
Action: BB checked, UTG+1 c-bets 18$, I called, V raised to 36$, everyone folded and I called. (125$)
Turn: 8
Action: I checked, he betted 50$, I called. (225$)
River: K

First to act what would you do here? ES is 185$, I doesn't look strong betting small on the turn, but seemed to have something on the flop since he reraised (he reraises a lot just to remember you). I'd say he as a queen most of the time. Now an overcard and a 3rd heart comes on the river.

Would you just check it down with A high? Or take a stab at the 225$ pot?

Last edited by CamNewton3; 01-24-2016 at 05:20 PM.
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Old 01-25-2016, 04:23 PM   #2
CamNewton3
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Re: Scary enough river?

Any thoughts on that?
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Old 01-25-2016, 04:28 PM   #3
TeamKB
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Re: Scary enough river?

preflop/flop/turn look reasonable

river: check and fold

your "read" on the player is contradictory to the max...

he is:
1. "Really aggressive preflop and post flop"
2. "Also passive"
3. "Otherwise seems weak"
and yet...
4. "every time I opened the betting either pre or post-flop (4 times), he reraised me"

is he bipolar?
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Old 01-25-2016, 05:15 PM   #4
Case2
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Re: Scary enough river?

If this guy is aggressive, betting and raising with any perceived equity, I could find a ch/call on the river for up to half the pot. You might be behind a Q, K, or backdoored flush, but bet/bet/bet is usually either a strong hand or a bluff. On this river, I'd expect a check back with any Q and maybe even K. There are busted straight and flush draws in his range that could find a bet on the river. As TeamKB says, though, reads on V are inconsistent. If he's passive, check/fold. If he's aggressive, check/call a reasonable bet.
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Old 01-25-2016, 05:31 PM   #5
CamNewton3
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Re: Scary enough river?

Aha right sorry guys. He was playing weirdly, I wanted to state that he is passively calling with weak pairs, but getting really aggressive when he thinks he has the best hand like top pair/weak kicker.

Checking is probably the best play against an unknown V.

I guess it is player dependant read a lot here, since he would be really aggressive with any Q (Q-8 to QJ) or any draw, I think that's what he has. I saw him bet bigger with stronger hands and folding when scare card comes. So I think I played this way only because I had a good read on him, otherwise I agree it would be a -EV play.
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Old 01-25-2016, 05:42 PM   #6
Below Zero
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Re: Scary enough river?

Note: So the V is "really aggressive preflop and post flop" BUT he's also passive? I don't get it.

PF: This is an iffy call from MP. How much was UTG+1 playing? I prefer a fold pre.

F (41): SPR is ~7. I might raise here to isolate UTG+1, but I'm not sure becasue I don't know his stack size.

T (131): How is the pot $125 at this point? Pot started at $41. Then UTG+1 put in $18, and Hero and V put in $72. Anyway...you c/c $50. Well you've played the hand so far as if you have exactly what you have. You've got $186 left and you've put in 1/3 of your stack. I think I'd prefer you check/shoving on the turn: you've got the flush draw and the gut shot for 12 outs, plus fold equity.

R (231):
Alright, if this guy is thinking about your hand, he's got to have you mostly on a draw, becasue you've played the hand exactly as if you do. The third heart is interesting. Let's say you do shove for $186 into the $231 pot. What are you representing based on what you did before the river? QhJh? QhTh? That's really about it. KxQx wouldn't shove the river now the flush, would they? A set would of raised the turn. Two pair is not likely given your image (I mean you don't have Q8). I don't know, really read dependent here. It's really either shove or check/fold though.
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Old 01-25-2016, 05:48 PM   #7
bodybuilder32
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Re: Scary enough river?

Given your read on V I wouldn't try a bluff here. Repping back door hearts look FOS. If he has a set or two pair, he's not folding. If he had a queen I think he would tank call unless you shoved. But that's assuming he only has a Q. He's played this hand very consistently with having a set since he raised over the nitty pre-flop raiser on the flop into multiple opponents.

Give up on the river. You're not gonna beat this guy from pushing him around, you're gonna beat him by letting him pay you off when you make a big hand.

Agree with above poster to fold pre. I would only call here if I was on the button and got to maximize my position throughout the hand.
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Old 01-25-2016, 06:34 PM   #8
Kebabkungen
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Re: Scary enough river?

With a weak tight opener in front of you and a villain who is very aggressive left to act on the button this is a hand you should not be calling with pre. Depending on other reads on weak tight opener Id either raise or fold, but probably fold with V on the button.

Id ship the turn with flush draw + pair. His bet doesnt look strong, and Id expect to have some fold equity if its true that he min-raises a lot of flops. He should have a lot of weak hands in his range here, and even if he has something this time you are guaranteed to have decent equity.

As played.. meh not sure, probably give up river unless you have reason to believe he can fold a queen here. I dont think most villains will.
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Old 01-25-2016, 06:38 PM   #9
bobman0330
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Re: Scary enough river?

If your hand is bad but has reasonable equity against a strong hand, you should CRAI on the turn if it's a reasonable option.
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Old 01-25-2016, 06:44 PM   #10
water69
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Re: Scary enough river?

I'm check-raise shipping it on the turn. His range is like Qx, 66, 33, and draws. And his weak bet OTT tells me he's probably not strong. I think we're getting plenty enough folds here to make it profitable.
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Old 01-25-2016, 06:55 PM   #11
bodybuilder32
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Re: Scary enough river?

This guy is way too unpredictable to be trying any kind of fancy bluff. Check-raising turns should only be reserved for tight players that we know are capable of folding top pair. We don't have enough reads that this guy can do this. Yes, we have a big hand, but cant be sure we have any fold equity. Villain is playing hand like he has a baby set or a bottom two pair, and hes not folding the turn with these.

The only chance we are even ahead is if V has the nut flush draw which I doubt he would bet $50 on the turn if he did.
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Old 01-25-2016, 07:15 PM   #12
Kebabkungen
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Re: Scary enough river?

check raising should also be used against laggy opponents post flop, with hands exactly like this, that have good equity but that will be in a bad spot if misses (just like what happened this hand). V has wayyyy wider range than small sets and 2p here if OPs read on his preflop and flop play is correct.
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Old 01-26-2016, 09:12 AM   #13
MikeStarr
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Re: Scary enough river?

The title of your post is "scary enough river?" That river isnt going to scare anyone. You should be making a lot of money when you hit a backdoor flush because nobody believes you have it, which means you cant bluff a back door flush and he has zero reason to think you have a K.
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Old 01-26-2016, 10:49 AM   #14
MrSpew
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Re: Scary enough river?

interested in what combo you think you rep by donk-shoving river?

too many sizing assumptions itt, how can any of you know how this player is sizing specific hands in his range?

ev pre seems pretty low..
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Old 01-26-2016, 01:02 PM   #15
CamNewton3
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Re: Scary enough river?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Below Zero View Post
Note: So the V is [I]
T (131): How is the pot $125 at this point? Pot started at $41. Then UTG+1 put in $18, and Hero and V put in $72. Anyway...you c/c $50. Well you've played the hand so far as if you have exactly what you have. You've got $186 left and you've put in 1/3 of your stack. I think I'd prefer you check/shoving on the turn: you've got the flush draw and the gut shot for 12 outs, plus fold equity.

R (231):
Alright, if this guy is thinking about your hand, he's got to have you mostly on a draw, becasue you've played the hand exactly as if you do. The third heart is interesting. Let's say you do shove for $186 into the $231 pot. What are you representing based on what you did before the river? QhJh? QhTh? That's really about it. KxQx wouldn't shove the river now the flush, would they? A set would of raised the turn. Two pair is not likely given your image (I mean you don't have Q8). I don't know, really read dependent here. It's really either shove or check/fold though.
For the 125$ pot, thats how a 10$ rake destroys a winrate lol.

And where do you see a gutshot OTT ?

And yes it's really read dependant, here I tought an overcard that completes a flush was scary enough. I wouldn't have done this against a thinking player because I have obviously mostly missed FD here, but like I said he is not a thinking player.
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