Everyone at the table is old except me and V, but that table isn't OMC. It's loose, passive and MUBSy.
H ($325) is 41yo WG, probably seen as LAG by the table. Only been open an hour, I've 3b pre several times, usually winning w/o showing. Haven't done anything donkish or out of line yet.
V ($260) is a 30's mixed race guy, seems like a thinking player. Not great necessarily but certainly not a donkey either. He's been opening light to $15 (~2x / orbit), frequent c-bet a reasonable sized bet and then slows down on the turn, river. Not that turn and river aren't seeing action but there's no unwarranted action or overbets.
OTTH
1 EP limper, V raises to $15 in HJ, BTN folds, H in SB w/ AdAs makes it $41, EP folds. HJ takes ~30 seconds and calls. I don't know what his calling range is, but I'm guessing it's 1010-QQ, KQs+, AQo+. May be lower than that, probably not tighter.
Flop ($80)
9d7d3c
Hero leads for $58 (I think this is a standard cbet). I'm planning on shoving essentially any turn if V calls. V takes 15 seconds and calls.
Turn ($196) Ks
V is sitting on $160, H covers. My dilemma is the K hit H's flop betting range way harder than V's flop calling range (V should have no AK in his range, H has all of it) and H is first to act. V also isn't speedy enough that he'll auto bet/steal if H checks the flop. This looks WA/WB and really the K is a terrible turn, not because of V maybe having K's but because it sort of kills H's action, assuming he's ahead to start with.
Hero?
Last edited by twitcherroo; 11-11-2017 at 03:51 PM.
$41 is way too small pre. I think we should go $60+.
I'm not sure why you're getting MUBSy OTT. I think the K is a great card for us b/c V might have made top pair. I don't understand why you think V is always 4betting you with AK. I think a 1/3 player has AK in their 3bet flatting range frequently, especially in position... though I really only see AxKd floating your c-bet OTF. There are KT+dd combos in V's range for sure though.
Overall, you have AA with 86bb effective. The plan from the start should have been to pile our chips in. We have less than a PSB left OTT & should only be thinking about either betting small OTT to shove river, or jamming in the moment.
I'm not at all MUBSy. Only concern is if K makes me less likely to get paid, which I think it does, not whether the K puts me behind in the hand, which I don't believe it does. Trying to understand, with how I've ranged V, what's the best play on the turn. Thanks.
I understand why you don't like the king, because you feel like it kills your action. But it doesn't matter. V has less than a PSB left OTT. Your plan should have been to jam all turns. You should have announced 'all-in' about 1 second after the turn card hit the table. Or 8 seconds if you want to be tricky.
Your plan should have been to jam all turns. You should have announced 'all-in' about 1 second after the turn card hit the table. Or 8 seconds if you want to be tricky.
It was and I did, but I don't think that was the smartest way to play the hand. What hands is H ahead of that V could have that call my turn shove?
This V isn't that V. He folded Q's face up and in retro spect I didn't give him the opportunity to play it otherwise.
maybe, but realistically. K killed the action and you werent getting another bet out of him no matter what you did, so good job folding his 2 outer, i think thats all the value you could get here.
maybe, but realistically. K killed the action and you werent getting another bet out of him no matter what you did, so good job folding his 2 outer, i think thats all the value you could get here.
Tomark - thanks for commenting on the question I was asking. I kind of felt like the K killed my hand vs. V's range and I really couldn't think of a smart way to get his stack. Which sucks because AA vs QQ is often a stacking scenario.
This thinking is so results orientated
Majority of the time anything other then jam turn is bad
It's not really results oriented because V had exactly what I thought he had. And that was the thought going through my head as I contemplated action at the time.
I agree that anything other than a jam is the generally the wrong answer, but I do think it's a more complicated thought process based on the turn as it is clearly putting V is a WA/WB situation. I think some FPS would be appropriate here some of the time, but AI is never bad is what I chose. It's going to be hard to stack V here, but not impossible. Thanks.
The K may have killed your action this time, but there’s going to be countless situations like this that come up. What if you checked and he checks behind and a diamond rolls off? Then you let him get there solely because you were trying to get fancy and squeak every last dollar out of him. If he has a fd you’re most likely going to get action so just jam the turn
It's not really results oriented because V had exactly what I thought he had. And that was the thought going through my head as I contemplated action at the time.
I agree that anything other than a jam is the generally the wrong answer, but I do think it's a more complicated thought process based on the turn as it is clearly putting V is a WA/WB situation. I think some FPS would be appropriate here some of the time, but AI is never bad is what I chose. It's going to be hard to stack V here, but not impossible. Thanks.
V doesnt always fold QQ here, depends on his mood and his view of your table image and all sorts of things, but nothing you can easily affect, you just give him an opportunity to screw up, and ball is in his court. Also some chance he has AK, or AdKs/KdQd
Also you dont lose money by getting folds. Good nights are when everyone folds.
It was and I did, but I don't think that was the smartest way to play the hand. What hands is H ahead of that V could have that call my turn shove?
How about asking yourself what hands is H behind that V could fold when the Kx appears because this is what you should be thinking about when you have something other than exactly AAd.
i don't like the 3! pre sizing for a couple of reasons. It gives V a great price to call in position w/ a wider range, and if you'd made it bigger pre, stuffing this turn and getting worse to call becomes easier as well. Another benefit is that you get more value from hands that will call a bigger bet, like QQ, that will give it to you before the action killing K comes on the turn.
Also, you can't be planning hands based on "he had exactly what I thought he had" but vs the range he can have in that spot. Depending on how wide he'll open suited connectors/1 gappers and continue after your smallish 3!, there are many cards between 3 and K that complete straights on the river, making a turn jam a good move vs his entire range, not just exactly what he had this time.
i don't like the 3! pre sizing for a couple of reasons. It gives V a great price to call in position w/ a wider range, and if you'd made it bigger pre, stuffing this turn and getting worse to call becomes easier as well.
I'd probably go just slightly more preflop to like $45 - $50 just to give slightly worse odds to setmining (especially since it'll be unlikely that we'll be able to fold postflop).
I probably just PSB the flop (no difference in calling frequency between ~$60 versus ~$80, imo).
While this turn card admittedly kills some of our action I just think board is too drawy and pot is relatively too huge (we've got less than a PSB left) to dick around here. I shove.
ETA: While I agree the preflop 3bet is a little small, it isn't horrific; it's still offering rather poor 10:1 IO, so it's really not that bad (I'm just conservative in this spot and like offering slightly worse 8:1 IO). I also understand OPs thinking on the turn for wanting to perhaps think of doing something different; again, my conservatism kicks in here so I lean towards straightforward, but I think at least considering the alternative is warranted (especially if this guy can be aggro).
