By the title you know how this ends (on the turn), but that's not really the point ... as mom says it's how you play the game.

2/5 - Effective $300 - H Has shown strong hands. V is on his third re-load - H's read is V is agitated, but has been quiet - no chatter.

H - KQu in MP, V is in EP.

4 limpers including V - H raises to 20 (5 more than standard at the table). All folds to V who calls.

Flop - K26r. V chx, H leads out for 35, V makes it 110 to go - H reads a play by V tired of losing, H raises all in, V calls.

From the line, could the inevitable carnage been avoided on the turn?

Thx for the thoughts.

We are short stacked, V has sets and worse Kx, he's tilted and we are short. If he's never folding Kx Gii is ok. Otherwise call and let him commit ott.

At 2/5, a standard raise would be $20. With four limpers it should be at least $35. For $20, all you did was sweeten the pot. I'm surprised you got so many folds. Also, I would have no problem over limping KQo with some many limpers in front.

Please include pot size on each street. I've been saying this a lot lately lol.

A c/r on this bone dry flop should be a monster. Would he c/r KJ? Most do not. They usually just call down with it. There are no draws present and few legit 2P combos, if any. That leaves sets and bluffs, and a bluff would likely shove rather than raise a callable amount. I'd let it go.

Agree w larger sizing pre. No shame in taking down the limps w KQ.

I'm not folding here generally especially vs a tilted opponent. So I either call and let him Bluff more or just gii, like commando said.

What is limp/calling and then check/raising you that flop? What are you hoping he has? A weak suited KXs?

I just don't see most regular/rec low stakes players making a fancy play here. He limped for $5 in EP, called $15 more when the pot was up to $40. The check raise on the rainbow flop screams small pair made a set to me.

You said he is on his full reload, but you haven't said anything about how he lost those previous buy ins. Was he playing a straightforward ABC low stakes style of play? If so, and you haven't actually seen him get out of line, you deciding that you think he is tilting is entirely wishful thinking on your part to justify a bad decision.

Those who are recommending larger raise pre have hit it on the head. And I know the read is subjective so I'm not saying the others are wrong. The larger raise pre seems to be the objectively correct move here.

This belongs in BBV.

Are you asking how to avoid losing to a 3-outer after you went all in?

Pray harder.

My pre sizing was questionable and I paid the price ... Thanks for the feedback

This is first thread I have read in 2 months.

Gonna be another 2 months before I read the next.

Good story bro.

So you rather someone fold than call with 3-outer?

Quit poker and I mean it.

Comment wasn't directed at you. Although I didn't make that clear.

Question was to vague to give a solid answer. Your thought process right now is really bad.

Raising more pre doesn't solve this hand. You likely don't win hand if you raise more pre.

Outcome of hand couldn't have played out better for you.

The results of hand couldn't get any worse. Realize the difference.

Move down stakes. Study.

Live cleaner

Vil was drawing to the front door 2-2 and hit the back door tre ball, seems advanced

PF sizing is too small. $20 might be the standard open, but w/ 4 limpers ahead, we should be making this more like $35-$40. Shocked so many limpers folded for just $15 more.

Flop is a fold against a typical LLSNL villain, but against one who's tilting, I'm definitely continuing here. I'd rather call, however, as if we shove, he's just going to fold all of his bluffs. If we just flat, he can continue his bluff by shoving the turn. Any worse K that he's raising flop w/ is going to shove turn anyway, and there aren't any draws here that we need to worry about.

Plan when you raise to 8x?

Why is 8x better than 4 or 5x (I would open to $20)?

Pretty bad to suggest raising 7 - 8bb with 60bb effective.

Hopefully get the pot HU in a lowish SPR spot where we can stack off w/ TPGK against dominated hands. 4 or 5x is likely to end up with the pot going multiway (even though it didn't in this case).

As far as we know, we're 60bb against just this V. We have no info on H's stack size or the stack sizes of the other limpers.

No,

We raise with KQ, vs field for value. We want calls. 2,3,4 calls. More the merry.

Getting pot heads up is of less value to us.

Getting KJ and K3 to fold is an abortion

KQo plays very poorly in a multiway pot. Also, even the most unobservant villains are going to notice if we raise to different sizes with different hands. I stick to 3.5 or 4xBB + 1 per limper with my entire range (plus or minus a BB or two depending on table conditions).

KQ plays bad multiway? Show me how, when guys are limping K3.

Also raising 5x here with most my raising range. No sizing tell to be had (easily remedy if it was)

How do hands that are limp calling play against KQ...at 60BB or even 100BB

Uh, it depends on limp/calling ranges, obviously. Against a typical LLSNL limp/calling range, KQo off has a slight equity edge:

*******Equity*****Win*****Tie
MP2****52.21%**49.94%***2.27%*{ KQo }
MP3****47.79%**45.51%***2.27%*{ TT-22, AJs-A2s, K8s+, Q9s+, J8s+, T8s+, 98s, 87s, 76s, 65s, AQo-A8o, KTo+, QTo+, JTo }

Against 3-4 such opponents, we maintain a slight equity edge relative to the field, but it becomes harder for us to realize that edge in a multiway pot as it's more difficult to reach showdown in spots where our K-high or 2nd pair are best, and it's more likely that one of our opponents bluffs / semi-bluffs us off of the best hand.

Now, obviously, this starts to change when Vs are limp/calling hands like K3o, but there's nothing in the OP to indicate these Vs are doing so (save for the tilting V, who's likely playing something like 75%+ in this spot, in which case the larger size just gets us more value against him anyway). The best possible result for us in this spot is raising large and getting the pot HU with this opponent who's playing near ATC.

Now show me why raising 5x with your entire range in this spot is better than 7-8x

Even worse.

At 60bb effective, oversized raises do not allow room to maneuver. Great for lesser players, horrible for better ones.

On top of that, you're arguing some sort of balanced range when the oversized raise leaves no room but an extremely nitty range.