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Same guy, similar runout Same guy, similar runout

02-21-2019 , 12:54 AM
2/100 spread, which plays similar to 1/2 most of the time but the max bet is $100. Guy's to my immediate right. Seems tight aggressive to me, I haven't seen him get out of line.

Earlier in the night we had played a hand that went limp-limp, he raised to 12 in the co, I called on the btn with with Q8dd, bb and limpers called, 5 ways to a Q84ss flop no diamonds.

Checked around to guy, he bet $35, I called, 3 folds. Turn was the Ace of spades making the flush, he bet $100 and I folded. I talked about it a whole bunch later, he never told me what he had, except that it wasn't 44.

Later, action goes limp, limp, he raises to 16 on the btn, I called in the sb with KQo, limpers both called, 4 ways to a QJ5r flop.

Flop goes 3 checks, guy bets $40, I call, two folds. Turn is an Ace, I can't remember if it was still rainbow. Guy bets $85, I call. River is another Ace. Guy bets $100, fairly quickly and sounds pretty confident.

Should I call or fold on the river?
Should I call or fold on the turn?
Should I 3-bet or fold preflop?
Same guy, similar runout Quote
02-21-2019 , 01:03 AM
1st hand fold pre always. Raise flop maximum you can.

2nd hand fold pre. Fold the turn.

Who knows tho without stack sizes
Same guy, similar runout Quote
02-21-2019 , 02:10 AM
Stack sizes were more-or-less irrelevant. We each had $400+ which in a 2/100 game is usually plenty for one hand.
Same guy, similar runout Quote
02-21-2019 , 02:11 AM
Stack sizes are never irrelevant
Same guy, similar runout Quote
02-21-2019 , 03:00 AM
First hand Q8s is fine from the button. you should be playing around 35% of hands to one bet. you should rr flop.

Don't call w KQo from SB. RR or fold. you are too passive with premium hands; you should have bet the flop.
Same guy, similar runout Quote
02-21-2019 , 03:08 AM
Fold pre both times
Same guy, similar runout Quote
02-21-2019 , 09:23 AM
Respectfully disagree on the first hand, I think I played it awesome. I may have fudged some of the particulars about exact bet size and the action.

I don't mind taking a turn there in position. Given that the absolute worst card in the deck peeled off (which means he couldn't have been bluffing the flop with Asx and shouldn't be betting the turn with Qx unless it's AQ) I think it's a fold.

I'm also not at all afraid of playing a 5-handed pot with Q8s on the btn and I'm not expecting a 3bet at that table from the blinds and the limpers.

3bet on the second hand seems totally reasonable. I think that would have been better.

Given that I did call I don't have a leading range on that kind of flop that smashes everybody's preflop ranges. I think check-call the flop makes total sense.

I thought the turn and river spots in that hand were pretty interesting.

What hands that I call the flop with there should I be calling the turn with? And what hands that I call the turn should I be calling or raising the river?
Same guy, similar runout Quote
02-21-2019 , 11:31 AM
The first hand is not awesome. Sorry. Calling a raise with that hand, even on the BTN, against a tight aggressive player is not good, I don't care how many callers you get. Just fold. As played, you flopped almost as good as possible and didn't raise. Not good. You should definitely be raising there. Every time.

Second hand is a fold pre. 3bet is fine, too, but I let it go. If you are going to play it pre and check/flat the flop, you need to call that river.
Same guy, similar runout Quote
02-21-2019 , 03:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javanewt
The first hand is not awesome. Sorry. Calling a raise with that hand, even on the BTN, against a tight aggressive player is not good, I don't care how many callers you get. Just fold. As played, you flopped almost as good as possible and didn't raise. Not good. You should definitely be raising there. Every time.
I guess it's fine to play a strategy of only getting involved in massively multi-way pots with nutted hands on the btn, but I definitely think you can be profitable with a VPIP more like 25%, which already includes Q8s but I'd prefer that anyway over a bunch of offsuit Ax and offsuit broadway hands.

I may have remembered the flop bet size wrong, but I think a call there is totally fine. I block so much of the value bets on that flop that most of the money is going in there on draws, and I'm happy to reevalute on the turn and confident that it's almost never checking to me on the turn either.

vs a nfd for instance (which I do not block) I think I lose more when I raise on the flop and the flush gets in, but I win the same as when I raise on the turn and the flush bricks. The player with the nfd has a hand that can at least fold to a river bet. Once the pot gets over $400 though I think I pretty much have to call off with two pair, even when the flush gets in (given that $100 is the max bet in this game).

Quote:
Second hand is a fold pre. 3bet is fine, too, but I let it go. If you are going to play it pre and check/flat the flop, you need to call that river.
That seems pretty reasonable to me.
Same guy, similar runout Quote
02-21-2019 , 03:59 PM
In the first hand, you absolutely need to raise the flop. What if more people called the $35, and then a K, J, any spade, etc., hits the turn and someone bets. Are you folding? You folded to the As against one player.
Same guy, similar runout Quote
02-21-2019 , 05:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puddnhead
Respectfully disagree on the first hand, I think I played it awesome. I may have fudged some of the particulars about exact bet size and the action.

I don't mind taking a turn there in position. Given that the absolute worst card in the deck peeled off (which means he couldn't have been bluffing the flop with Asx and shouldn't be betting the turn with Qx unless it's AQ) I think it's a fold.

I'm also not at all afraid of playing a 5-handed pot with Q8s on the btn and I'm not expecting a 3bet at that table from the blinds and the limpers.

3bet on the second hand seems totally reasonable. I think that would have been better.

Given that I did call I don't have a leading range on that kind of flop that smashes everybody's preflop ranges. I think check-call the flop makes total sense.

I thought the turn and river spots in that hand were pretty interesting.

What hands that I call the flop with there should I be calling the turn with? And what hands that I call the turn should I be calling or raising the river?
Well, what on earth are you posting it here for? Were you just seeking confirming evidence?

The reality is you should fold pre, and as played raise flop which nearly everyone has told you to do. If there's no advice on this hand that would change what you would do, then you're just wasting everyone's time.
Same guy, similar runout Quote
02-21-2019 , 05:20 PM
I concur what was the point? You played bad. People tell you why. You follow up with fish reasoning for your bad play and seem to have it all figured out.
Same guy, similar runout Quote
02-21-2019 , 07:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitchens97
Well, what on earth are you posting it here for? Were you just seeking confirming evidence?
For Christ's sake, I thought THE TURN AND RIVER on the 2nd hand were close spots.

I thought the first hand was relevant because it was a very similar flop (Q-high) and a very similar turn (Ace) against the same player so the hand history was quite relevant.

I did not ask for advice on the first hand. You guys can all crap your pants that I didn't raise. I don't care.

I thought this board might elicit some insight in the two weird spots I found myself in. Instead all I get was "obviously raise 100% of the time when you flop top two and there's a flush draw on board." Brilliant stuff, guys.
Same guy, similar runout Quote
02-21-2019 , 07:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javanewt
In the first hand, you absolutely need to raise the flop. What if more people called the $35, and then a K, J, any spade, etc., hits the turn and someone bets. Are you folding? You folded to the As against one player.
Well the answer to that is obviously "it depends."

Against one player I would continue against any card except the Ace of Spades - raise any non-spade and call any other spade on the turn.

Against multiple players I probably would fold to any spade. Depends on who continues somewhat obviously and how much they bet.

You guys are I think greatly overestimating how many flush draws fold to a pot-sized raise in a $1/$2 game. Definitely never any Ax, T9, J9. Lots of low-stakes players would continue with any two spades there.
Same guy, similar runout Quote
02-21-2019 , 07:39 PM
If it makes you all sleep any better, I do check-raise top 2 100% of the time out of position regardless of board texture.

Actually that's not true, I probably wouldn't against a maniac. Carry on having nightmares about me not raising top 2.
Same guy, similar runout Quote
02-21-2019 , 08:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puddnhead
For Christ's sake, I thought THE TURN AND RIVER on the 2nd hand were close spots.

I thought the first hand was relevant because it was a very similar flop (Q-high) and a very similar turn (Ace) against the same player so the hand history was quite relevant.

I did not ask for advice on the first hand. You guys can all crap your pants that I didn't raise. I don't care.

I thought this board might elicit some insight in the two weird spots I found myself in. Instead all I get was "obviously raise 100% of the time when you flop top two and there's a flush draw on board." Brilliant stuff, guys.
Then the answer is fold pre both spots cause you're clueless post.
Same guy, similar runout Quote
02-21-2019 , 08:19 PM
so let me get this straight... Against essentially the same betting line by the V, in the first hand you fold top two because an Ace and flush hit, but in the second hand you call down with TP2K when an Ace hits only because there is no flush possibility (and obviously not considering the OESD)?
Same guy, similar runout Quote
02-21-2019 , 08:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puddnhead
Respectfully disagree on the first hand, I think I played it awesome. I may have fudged some of the particulars about exact bet size and the action.

I don't mind taking a turn there in position. Given that the absolute worst card in the deck peeled off (which means he couldn't have been bluffing the flop with Asx and shouldn't be betting the turn with Qx unless it's AQ) I think it's a fold.

I'm also not at all afraid of playing a 5-handed pot with Q8s on the btn and I'm not expecting a 3bet at that table from the blinds and the limpers.

3bet on the second hand seems totally reasonable. I think that would have been better.

Given that I did call I don't have a leading range on that kind of flop that smashes everybody's preflop ranges. I think check-call the flop makes total sense.

I thought the turn and river spots in that hand were pretty interesting.

What hands that I call the flop with there should I be calling the turn with? And what hands that I call the turn should I be calling or raising the river?
Then you have a lot to learn.
Same guy, similar runout Quote

      
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