1/2 NL. Villain is middle-aged man, apparently a regular by the way he talks to the dealers / floor but I haven't seen him before. He changed seats a couple times, presumably to get on the left of aggressive players. He has been generally tight and really haven't heard much from him in a few hours.

Hero is late 20's, have run up a good stack, mostly showing down big hands and some decent non-showdown wins. Probably viewed as TAG.

The rest of the table has been pretty loose. Not a ton of raising preflop, but there are a couple short stacks who have been shoving when it is.

Hero has $850, V1 has $350.

A couple players limp, V1 limps in HJ, CO and Button limp, Hero completes sb with J7, bb checks. 7 players to the flop

Flop J9J (Pot: $12)
Hero checks first to act, everyone else checks.

Turn J9J 7 (Pot: $12)
Hero bets $9, folds to V1 who thinks for 15 seconds then calls. Others fold.

River Turn J9J 7 6 (Pot: $29)
Hero bets $22, V1 raises to $50, Hero raises to $100, V1 shoves pretty quickly for $332 total. Hero ???

Thoughts on all streets appreciated. Maybe should have led the flop considering so many opponents, don't want to give a free card to a straight draw since a lot of cards will be scary. I don't even know if I was planning for a check-raise, just tried the old "I'm not interested in this board" quick-check.

Snap reload. At best he has J9 and in holdem God bless....

fold pre

Fold pre.

As played, you have to call because you have second nuts and your range, even to a thinking player, includes a lot of weaker hands, as does V1's range. If he has J9, it is an expensive lesson as to why we do not complete with J7. If he does not have J9, it is a gift from the poker gods.

Don't play in a way that you are dependent upon gifts from the poker gods.

AP im instacalling. Like other have said, if he has J9, well whatever.

Also, I'd fold pre as well. I'd pass on completing SB with J7

fold pre.

as played, you can't really put him on one specific hand or quads. He could do this with other hands we beat such as 666/full or 777/full. If he has 999/full, he already had your stack entitled in his mind on the flop.

We're not that deep to consider folding at this point imo.



.

tl;dr
Fold pre and snap call now.

Lets apply some math to this and see how terrible it would be to fold here:
V has exactly 3 possible combos of hands that can beat us.
He has 2 combos of hands that we chop with (which is the same as 1 hand we lose to, and 1 hand that we beat).

So we are losing to 4 combos and we need to beat X combos to make a break even call.
We are calling $232 into a pot of $461 so we need to be good here 232/(461+232) = 33.47% of the time. Or combos we beat / ( combos we lose to + combos we beat) = 33.47%.

x / ( 4 + x) = 33.47%
x = 1.338 + .3347x
.6653x = 1.338 = 2.001
We need to be able to beat 2 combos of villain hands, and since 1 know that we already beat 1 (because of the chop) we need to beat 1.
Does he spaz out here with 77 100% of the time? Or J6 1/3 of the time? What about 99 1/3 of the time? What about any of the straight draws even 5% of the time?

If you can really answer no to all of these, that 100% of the time he doens't gii with any of these combos, ever, not even some of the time, then you can fold.
Otherwise snap call, say nice hand, reload and try again.

Do I at least complete with 5 limpers if it's J7?

Would an underboat really shove this river for value considering how small the pot was going into it? J6 seems very unlikely given V1's image. In his spot I would probably just flat the $100 without J's full, is that nitty?

J7 would have been better to complete but with 5 limpers in the pot already in 1/2 it's not the worst complete in the world.

You have no reads on this guy so he could have anything. He could even show up with AJ. If he was a pro I would be more worried about it but not against an older recreational player.

i consider myself a decent llsnl player, and i dont think i could complete j7s here profitably in a typical game

Seems like a trivial call on river. You only lose to J9 but beat 99, 66, 77, and all other Jx hands which make this play the exact same way. Anything but a snap call and "NH" is giving this hand too much thought and villain too much credit when we have the second nuts.

^What they said.

And bet the flop.

This just goes to show the completing j7 is a mistake. We have managed to make the second nuts yet we aren't sure we wan to stack off. We need way more history and a soul read to fold. I raise too much busted out the math for you. This is a call and a lesson as to why we should fold j7 in the sb.

An underboat would shove, yeah. Occasionally, 810 and AJ will shove as well. God bless 1/2nl.

any full house would make that play from most 1/2 rec's.

this is 1/2 they are not paying attention to our hand.

"I have full house! I raise all in!"

also we have the third nuts, not that one more monster under the bed should matter.

Snapcall fistpump this is always slow played JX, if you ran it into J9 whatever

zeeeeeeeeeeeeebo

Third nuts? What am I missing? If he flips over JJ, we better be getting our money back.

Let's say you complete with J7cc; it's only another buck and who knows what may come.

1. The flop comes KJ2r. What's your plan?

2. The flop comes J44r. What's your plan?

3. The flop comes T54cc. What's your plan?
3a. Turn Ad. What now?
3b. River 8c. You donking? Going for the c/r? (How often is V going to bet here with worse?) What if your c/r gets re-raised?

4. The flop comes QT4ccc (once in 118 flops). What's your plan? If you c/r the flop and a solid player shoves, are you happy?
4a. Let's say you check the flop and it checks around. Turn is 5c. Now what?

The point is: suited junk out of position is no fun. Even when you hit, you never quite know where you are and it is hard to get paid off by worse.

Wrong question to ask. You shouldn't play it based on how many people have limped. Although that may be a function of how you decide on an answer to the right question.

The $1 SB is a sunk cost, so you're in for $0. So you can fold and the EV on that is $0, you don't lose anything more than the mandatory SB and you don't gain anything. So ask yourself "Am I good enough to play J7s/J7o from out of position, pay $1 to do it, and over time make back at least $1/hand?" $1 per hand might not seem like much. If you limped in this circumstance 10,ooo times, paid $10K to do it, are you netting $10K postflop when all is said and done?

Villain can't have quads. DUCY?

no. how do you know the deck is correct DUCY

I was wondering why everyone kept saying second nuts.

Agree with the fold pre/snap now crew. Good work iraisetoomuch as always.

I fold pre because I only like to complete with hands that make the nuts at least semi-easily.

The worst J I am completing with is J8s, J7s is a good way to get stacked by QJ etc.

People say "POT ODDS! I AM GETTING 9-1 HOW CAN I FOLD???", and that is true IF AND ONLY IF you can assuredly say you will not make mistakes postflop, which is difficult enough with J7o but even more so if you're OOP.

We are not HS ballers, we want to avoid tough spots, hence we fold these hands pre.

Umm we have the second nuts.

Everyone likes J8s

But can it make the nut straight?