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River spot w/KTh River spot w/KTh

07-27-2013 , 02:34 PM
2/5 nl

V1 ($1k stack UTG+2) - loose PF and gambles post but generally has the goods
V2 ($500 stack CO) - new to table and not much reads beyond his looking like a newbie. A bit CSish - chased FD on a 3 flush board and folded on turn before.
Hero ($900 stack OTB) - KThh. Have been card dead so may have a tight image

V1 and V2 limp
H raises to $30
Both call

KA2 flop all diamonds.

Checks to me and I bet $60

V1 folds and V2 calls.

Turn 6s - I decided to let him bluff on blank river and Checked down.

River As

V2 bets $155

His line smells of busted FD, set and for some dumb reason I eliminated A entirely w/2 As on board.

How is my thinking and what's my line here?

Thanks.
River spot w/KTh Quote
07-27-2013 , 03:12 PM
Good point. Have seen people bluffing OTR just cuz they sense weakness. Bad assumption on my part to apply it so generally. Thanks. Now I can fix that leak.

As for flop bet I bet 2/3 pot which seemed right. Anything more vs 2 callers seems too much...
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07-27-2013 , 03:58 PM
I'd usually check behind otf... probably marginal either way

river as played is a simple fold mostly for reasons thelongway mentioned
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07-27-2013 , 04:29 PM
I prob check flop for pot control. If V2 really is a newbie then he could easily have a rag ace. He didn't play it like a flush though. Either way he folds hands you beat and prob doesn't lay down an ace. Maybe KQ/KJ but that's ambitious to bet river with on his part. I'd lay this one down. Especially with no real reads.
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07-27-2013 , 06:27 PM
check the flop, gotta soul read on anything past that.
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07-27-2013 , 07:06 PM
Raising pre is fine, but limping is better.

You have limited reads, but it sounds like the limpers don't like folding. That's good news for you - you have position with a good flopping hand and deep stacks, and you can win a ton if you hit against these guys. Also, not sure your "tight" image matters / that these guys would notice.

Raising pre against stationy villains doesn't really serve a purpose - it probably won't show a profit on its own, and it undermines your positional advantage (gives a limper a chance to re-pop, which is unlikely but possible) and just creates a larger pot, decreasing your implied odds when you hit big with flushes or straights and putting you in tougher spots in larger pots with the marginal hands you're more likely to make, like one pair. Position will help, but reverse implied odds with a hand like KT are still an issue.

Obviously, raising pre is OK. It could isolate one limper... it could win the pot outright (a great outcome), etc... but with such a good flopping hand and villains as described, it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense here.

Flop is probably a check as played. You're facing two villains on an A-high board in what's becoming a huge pot. Further, you can just play this so perfectly in position. Betting probably isn't terrible and you will get value / force draws to pay... but since we can account for the Ad and Kd, there aren't all that many diamonds in villains' ranges that already flushes - think about it. Their ranges are probably quite wide and include some draws, but in terms of made hands, it's going to be a lot of broadway (including better K's and whiffed QJ, QT, etc), Ax, and smaller pairs... against the Ax and better K, you're way behind; against the smaller pairs, you're way ahead.

On the river as played, folding is probably right. But you didn't have to lose such a large pot if you played earlier streets differently.
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07-27-2013 , 08:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thelongway
"Raising pre is fine, but limping is better"

LOL no.


I think in these weak live games limping goes way up in value. Like he said, against stationy villains you really dont need to raise so much pre because theyre still likely to call post if you do hit. Plus in big pots fish like to spaz out and make weird bluffs that don't make sense that put us in bad spots. With that being said its still not bad to raise in this spot/ this hand. I just think limping is a little overlooked in these games.
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