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River over bet from LAG River over bet from LAG

02-27-2016 , 01:27 AM
Home game 1/2

V is early 30s LAG no reads except that he's very active and aggressive (hence lag). Covers.

Hero: 20 y/o white college student. Seen as very aggressive (shoved flush draws etc). $400.

V (UTG) opens for $12. Hero (CO): ARiver over bet from LAGKRiver over bet from LAG raises to 35. Folds to V who calls.

Flop (70): KRiver over bet from LAG 9River over bet from LAG 6River over bet from LAG
V checks. Hero bets 45. V calls.

Turn (160): QRiver over bet from LAG
V checks. Hero checks.

River (160): 9River over bet from LAG
V bets 120. Hero?

Edit: this is not an over bet. Oops. Don't know how to change the title.
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02-27-2016 , 01:41 AM
An explo fold can be fine if you have a good enough feel for how villain plays since this run out was so soul-crushingly awesome for his range (KQ/QQ/JT/9x all getting there). But with his overactive tendencies, it's likely a mandatory call since he very well might turn JJ/QJ sorta hands into a bluff or even value KJ. We have the best hand we could ever dream of having here, and we unblock all of his bluffs.
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02-27-2016 , 01:57 AM
I would bet turn, ap probably fold river. Seems like a lot on a pure Bluff and anytime a big bet comes in otr when the flopped pair/flush draw turns into trips I'm always super weary. Idk super tough to really solve this without reads, just a generic 1/2 read that most players are bad passive as opposed to bad aggressive, and even in a case like this it just looks like a bad aggressive leveling attempt to me at a glance.
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02-27-2016 , 07:15 PM
I don't think this V would lead out with a worse king since he would assume you would fold any hand weaker than top pair. On the same token, missed spades, 87, A6, would probably bluff the river here and I have played with many lags that open raise hands like these at 1-2. Its a close decision and one that I lean toward calling if I am going to be playing with said player many times for meta-game reasons to deter opponents from bluffing me.
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02-27-2016 , 07:29 PM
You look like you c-bet your own 3-bet pot, then gave up OTT.

V is probably sensing weakness and is stealing, or betting what he thinks is the best hand (Qx/JJ). He could have something like AQ.

Call.
River over bet from LAG Quote
02-27-2016 , 11:11 PM
bet turn. lots of worse broadway holdings have pair or straight draws and will call. J9, T9, 98 definitely in his range. 78 and FDs are there too.
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02-27-2016 , 11:54 PM
Your hand seems a but under repped, your line kind of makes you look like you missed flop after checking behind on the turn. I think I call here. I'd also bet turn
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02-28-2016 , 03:54 AM
Bet/bet/shove. River isn't an overbet. V probably has 9T or something.
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02-28-2016 , 01:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wj94
Bet/bet/shove. River isn't an overbet. V probably has 9T or something.
board texture looks a bit bad for bet/bet/shove?

wouldn't you check behind on the river considering there are almost no hands you are getting value from?
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02-28-2016 , 01:49 PM
The preflop 3b was already thin (it's not my standard, but it's a mix play and probably quite good against an unknown active player), and going for b/b/shove on this runout is downright spew.
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02-28-2016 , 03:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Titanrulez
board texture looks a bit bad for bet/bet/shove?

wouldn't you check behind on the river considering there are almost no hands you are getting value from?
I would just pot every street. V probably has to decide on turn anyway.
River over bet from LAG Quote
02-28-2016 , 04:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaiseAnnounced
The preflop 3b was already thin (it's not my standard, but it's a mix play and probably quite good against an unknown active player), and going for b/b/shove on this runout is downright spew.
3!ing AK suited is thin? What are you 3 betting? KK and AA only?
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02-28-2016 , 04:37 PM
Grunch.

Call. You induced a bet with your turn check behind. V, particularly this one, might just be attacking weakness.

As a side note, if you're not going to know what to do with a river lead from this V after checking turn, you should consider not checking turn. If you bet/fold turn, V is more likely to play square --I think a bluff raise here is unlikely. If you bet and V calls, you should get a free showdown. If V leads OTR after you RR pre, bet flop, bet turn, you are probably behind and can fold.
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02-28-2016 , 04:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Case2
Grunch.

Call. You induced a bet with your turn check behind. V, particularly this one, might just be attacking weakness.

As a side note, if you're not going to know what to do with a river lead from this V after checking turn, you should consider not checking turn. If you bet/fold turn, V is more likely to play square --I think a bluff raise here is unlikely. If you bet and V calls, you should get a free showdown. If V leads OTR after you RR pre, bet flop, bet turn, you are probably behind and can fold.
I made this action to A) lose the minimum if he shows up with AQ and B) Induce a bluff from missed draws and C) induce action from hands like KJ.

I was 100% sure I was going to call any non spade river but I'm posting because I'm not sure this is the right line to take.
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02-28-2016 , 05:23 PM
Fair enough. Disregard the side note.

To discuss a bit further, OTF SPR was about 6 in a 3b pot. What was your commitment decision then? Were you committed, committed under certain circumstances, or not committed?

Or to put it another way, under what circumstances, if any, do you see V stacking off to you here? If those circumstances are unlikely, I like the turn checkback. If he is likely to stack off, I like a bigger flop bet followed by a turn bet (unless you think a turn check will allow you to raise a river lead and be ahead and get called).

Against an aggro V when you're not committed, the advantage of the turn checkback is that it encourages him to depart further from balanced poker. You want an aggro opponent to be into you more frequently.
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02-28-2016 , 05:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Case2
Fair enough. Disregard the side note.

To discuss a bit further, OTF SPR was about 6 in a 3b pot. What was your commitment decision then? Were you committed, committed under certain circumstances, or not committed?

Or to put it another way, under what circumstances, if any, do you see V stacking off to you here? If those circumstances are unlikely, I like the turn checkback. If he is likely to stack off, I like a bigger flop bet followed by a turn bet (unless you think a turn check will allow you to raise a river lead and be ahead and get called).

Against an aggro V when you're not committed, the advantage of the turn checkback is that it encourages him to depart further from balanced poker. You want an aggro opponent to be into you more frequently.
I don't think my hand is strong enough to stack off with here. That's another reason why I check back the turn. My only concern with the check back is if he is drawing I'm letting him continue drawing for free.
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02-28-2016 , 06:26 PM
Yep, checking back gives free cards. It's a tradeoff between preserving your stack if you do happen to be beat (a worthy goal) and not giving free cards (also a worthy goal). In this case, you've decided that preserving your stack takes precedence over charging draws. That's a reasonable decision, but it comes at a cost that you have to be willing to pay.
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