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River decision with bottom set River decision with bottom set

07-19-2016 , 12:06 AM
1-2 NL home game. Villain in this hand is well known to hero. Young guy, classic LAG (he raised to $20 earlier with Q4 suited from the HJ), tends to overbet big draws. Probably the best player at the table, though. Not afraid to put other players in for all their chips. I've been trying not to get mixed up with him, but sometimes it can't be helped!

I've had an OK session. I lost my first $200 buy in, got it back up to $440, and now I'm down to somewhere around $350 and villain has about $500.I'm 15 minutes from my cutoff time for the night. I have a TAG image and Villain probably thinks I c-bet too much.

Rest of table is shades of loose passive.

OTTH

Villain is UTG and limps, maybe one other limper, and I make it $15 from the CO with 66. $15 is my standard raise sizing. Occasionally it's more, but almost always $15. I rarely open limp.

I get 3 callers, the HJ (who is awful), villain, and someone from mp.

Pot is $63.

Flop comes J9:6

Villain checks, mp checks, I lead for $45. HJ folds, villain calls, mp folds.

Pot is now $153. Turn is an A

I'm happy with this card. Villain checks, I bet $85. In retrospect, I think this is a bit too small. I'm giving the villain 2.8:1. Not great odds, but callable for him with lots of draws in his range. Villain calls.

Pot is now $323. River is a K

Villain open shoves pretty quickly, effectively putting me all in with about $200 left. This is a horrible card for me. It brings in all the obvious draws: diamonds and QT. Obviously I'm losing to a better set, the most likely being 99, but I think the higher set would have raised at some point, so I've discounted it considerably. I'm beating any 2p hand and a bluff, though what would he be bluffing with?? I think this covers his range where he'd be check-calling and then leading for that amount. I'm getting 2.6:1 to make the call, which means my set only has to be good 28% of the time.

Am I getting the right odds to call here? Or is this a fold?
River decision with bottom set Quote
07-19-2016 , 01:57 AM
Oh man I would have a hard time with this. Depends on your read on him. Did he limp with pocket pairs trying to set mine all night? Something that makes me think you called in the end is you said he thinks you c bet too much and therefore might be bluffing the river. Might have thought you hit air with that flop too.

Personally I would have bet more on the turn, maybe like $120. He most likely does not have a nut flush draw because he would have bet the turn when that ace hit if he had AdXd...thinking he is good here and hoping to build a pot if the river is a d. Being a LAG he would probably raise preflop with JJ or 99 so more likely he has 2 pair or straight...tough one. Shove there seems fishy, if he had the nuts he's going to want value and maybe bet $125....would he limp utg with QTo? I think he might with something like Jh9h, but he also would with QhTh...maybe I just talked myself into a donk call but I think I am doing it. lol.
River decision with bottom set Quote
07-19-2016 , 03:02 AM
Seems fine with me. SPR is 5.7 four way with bottom set so we're not looking to gii here but we still have to charge these V's.

Flop bet is fine. Turn bet should of been around $40 more.

River is so-so. The quick shove could be a tell/reverse tell so it's up to you. Is V capable of shoving scare cards against your image/raise pf/double barrel?

To me, I guess I'm folding. Sucks but it is what it is. The king on the river hits your range of ak which only looks to make his potential two pair no good here, but he still leads river.

I'm folding.
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07-19-2016 , 05:42 AM
Vs this player you need to have him committed or folding on turn cards. Pot flop, pot/eff shove turn.

AP, I'm folding. Face down.
River decision with bottom set Quote
07-19-2016 , 06:19 AM
It might be nitty of me but when players are betting cards that should be good for me, I tend to fold without better than expected holdings.

Here AK = 66, so I'd probably fold
River decision with bottom set Quote
07-19-2016 , 09:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amanaplan
Vs this player you need to have him committed or folding on turn cards. Pot flop, pot/eff shove turn.

AP, I'm folding. Face down.
Yup. Agree with this 100%.
River decision with bottom set Quote
07-19-2016 , 10:56 AM
Agree with the consensus that the turn was too small. You've now got double flush draws and a straight draws out there.

You describe the guy as a classic LAG. There's a nice LAG play that you are susceptible too OTT. When the turn adds significantly more draws and a LAG is chasing a TAG with a fold button... then he essentially adds a ton of potential bluff cards that can fall OTR. In this case, any card greater than a 4 and any diamond or spade - that's not a pair. So he chases his draw - but plans to shove on anyone of these draws that come in. If you thought he was capable of such a plan - then with those odds you need to call him down. You'll note that betting pot OTT really takes this play away from the LAG.
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07-19-2016 , 11:13 AM
If he's a lag you have to call scare card rivers. Fundamental.
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07-19-2016 , 11:15 AM
I agree we should be potting both the flop and turn. We should be committed. Instead we left so much behind that we're in a ****ty spot. I think we have to call given his image/style, but expect to lose quite often.
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07-19-2016 , 10:16 PM
I folded. Villain showed 78 for a bluff. Agree with everyone here: Big mistake in the hand was betting the turn too small. Bet it bigger and this would have been an easier river call. Thanks for the comments, all.
River decision with bottom set Quote
07-20-2016 , 12:45 AM
If a LAG thinks you C-bet too much, you C-bet too much. Im not sure this guy is a LAG though if he didnt check raise the turn all in with a super draw.

As for the hand, yeah, bet more on the turn. I might even overbet the turn as it looks like a bluff to a lot of people.
River decision with bottom set Quote
07-20-2016 , 07:12 AM
It's always V-specific, but the immediate shove is prob more likely a bluff than a value bet. People who have a hand think for at least a second about what is the best play.
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07-20-2016 , 01:42 PM
V would have to view you as some kind of supernit for him to expect you to fold to a bluff after you presumably make top two pair. Little does he know you are even stronger than that.

muck it.
River decision with bottom set Quote
07-20-2016 , 01:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by diewoodchuckdie
I folded. Villain showed 78 for a bluff. Agree with everyone here: Big mistake in the hand was betting the turn too small. Bet it bigger and this would have been an easier river call. Thanks for the comments, all.

just read the results. V really has nailed down your calldown threshold and made a bluff that most rec players are going to call down a large % of the time, and make it highly unprofitable. He obviously has a higher than average bluff frequency against you. This is useful info for future games.
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