The good part about betting a polarized size is you maximize fold equity by betting such a large amount, and you also maximize profit when you have it. It's not good to be results oriented in poker but the result of this hand can give us a lot of information. You couldn't even fold out 87 so the size of the bluff wasn't practical. If you can't effectively bluff with this bet size it is going to be hard to construct a balanced range around it.

When you want a call with a weaker hand, the half pot bet is a pretty good size.

Unless AQdd+, cbetting the flop 3-way with AQo+ is leaking, imho.

grunch

check flop

as played check turn.

as played check river.

If you're bluffing with this hand you're bluffing WAAAAAAY too much. You need to at least have some small draw or relevant blocker or else you're just spewing bluffs on every hand.

post-grunch: don't do this at 2/5 either. Please constrain your bluffs to having some reason to bluff, don't bluff ATC. You're gonna get crushed.

Based on his flop call I’m having a hard time constructing a decent range for villain that we can exploit.
You say his turn mannerism is indicative of a pair and a diamond draw. So is he calling flop with a medium PP that has a diamond? If so, wouldn’t he likely fold turn?
Can he be hollywooding here with a flush on the turn?
I’m just going with a generic range on the flop of medium PPs with a diamond, TP with a diamond, a few bare FDs and the venerable 5-6 for the double gutter. he may be floating flop with overs with a single diamond too. But most of this range gets washed out with the A on the turn and your double barrel.
I think he is stronger than you think and actually give 5-6 a significant weight in his value range. Even if he isn’t strong, your read is he is sticky and likes to hero so I’d let this one go and check it down to see what he has to try and better exploit in future hands


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Grunch.

Flop is pretty meh, i dont like cbetting here with KT no backdoors esp vs stations. There arent many good turn barrels for you.

Ap turn is a snap check, he has a flush here a decent amount, some trapped sets, and pairs + diamonds.

Ap river when you get here i prob just snap jam, you dug your hole here and you can get him off some hands + when he tanks that long ott i dont think he’s very strong. He might even hero fold a set tho im not counting on that

How is a flop cbet really that bad here? I think the size is too big but if we bet half pot it doesn't need to work that often and we have some equity vs a calling range of top pair, pocket pair, draws, etc. 842 doesn't connect with SB or limper's range at all.

I agree the rest of the hand OP didn't need to keep betting but I'm surprised to see so much give up on such a disconnected flop.

because if we're betting KT here that means we're betting EVERY SINGLE HAND, which is just not a good strategy three handed here imo. We need to have some give up range or we're gonna be burning money c-betting too much.

If you bet this river, you are saying that you have a flush and and probably the nuts or 2nd nut flush at that. You bet the flop with the the Front door flush draw present, bet the turn when the Ace of diamonds hit bringing in flush and gutshot straight draws, and now you are thinking about betting the river with a 4 line to a straight in addition to the flush.

You have little to no showdown value, and you have no key blockers that make sense to continue a 3rd street to me. I don't think it makes sense to bluff in this spot personally, but if I do, I'm shoving.

What kinds of hands are you targeting to fold out with this river bluff? that's the key question in my mind. Straight's and flushes in my mind are never folding, badly played flopped set probably going to get sticky IMO. 2 pair is probably a crying call that'll occasionally fold. Seems to me that you are looking to fold out one pair hands, that maybe also had a diamond in them drawing for a flush on the turn. pair of 8's or 99-TT with a diamond in it is about the only hands I think you could fold out here with a 3rd barrel.

Ranging him, I don't think he has 99-TT very often, especially since you have a ten in you hand. I'm waiting him more towards middle flushes or maybe even pair + straight draw/flush draw on the turn that hit either two pair or a straight at minimum.

I think this is a bad hand to consider 3rd barrel bluffing

This is not very accurate. I said in a prior post that checking back marginal showdown value like 55, A high would be better. A hand with no showdown value like the one we have plays better as a bet, and we do have some equity. I don't think we are deciding on the flop whether to give up, so there isn't such a thing as a give up range when we are IP. When we are OOP then yeah we give up stuff like 55 on AKQ multiway.

But if you bet every hand that has no showdown value then you're going to the turn with too much air when you bet flop whether you're IP or OOP. This is fine if you have lots of FE because no-one in the hand is paying attention to your frequencies. However, as soon as anyone live in the hand is paying attention and figures out what you're doing two things are going to happen:

1) you'll quickly lose your FE the wider you bet
2) you'll open yourself up to a wider rebluffing range

You'll get called down light and get X/raised by air/low-equity-semibluffs and lose money both ways.

How many no showdown value hands do we have here? Something like JTs, QJs, QTs, KTs, KJ, KQ, or just suited broadways. The diamond combos can certainly stand a raise. So it's something like 3+3+3+3+15+15. This amount of bluffs can easily be balanced by the number of sets, overpairs, etc that are for value. I don't think we have too much weakness going to the turn if our strategy involves checking back a lot of pockets and A high.

I agree if V's are c/r happy we can't cbet flop with air as much. Also it is totally fine to be c/r off a hand with no sd value and not a good draw. We run into trouble when we have showdown value and get bluffed off the best hand.

So to answer your points
1) Im advocating betting polarized and we don't have an unreasonable amount of air combos relative to our value combos.
2) It's fine to get bluffed off two broadways no draw, our hand sucks.

For getting called down light, it totally depends on the runout. I didn't care for barreling OPs turn card but other ones could have worked out better. We do have equity with our two overs also and can count on getting lucky some % of the time.

C-betting way too many hands, esp 3-way, is a pretty big leak a lot of players have. If you're betting KThh here, you're probably cbetting a bunch of hands like QJs, Q10s, AJs, AJo, etc maybe not at 100% but at a good frequency. On this board we should probably only have a 40-50% cbet range max, probably even lower than that. Moreso bc we are playing against bad players imo

The fact that we're playing against stations otf makes the cbet even worse than it was in a vacuum.

Where does this number come from? I'm not arguing with it but curious.

KThh doesn’t block much on this flop texture. All FD combos will call, 8X will, 65 (DG) will, and ofc over pairs. Flush draws / double gutter will usually call the turn, so if double-barreling makes little sense, the flop c-bet serves no purpose.

Hero hand also has zero backdoor equity, which you might not consider at these stakes, but is a fundamental component at higher stakes, especially ip. Toss in the stickiness of the typical $1/$2 NL opponent makes this an ez check-back.

This isn't HU where we can cbet a lot of our range (50-80% depending on board texture) and get away with it. Since it is 3-way, our cbet range naturally has to lower because there are more available players to defend vs our bet. If say there were 9 players in the pot (extreme example), our cbet range needs to be super narrow (probably <10%). Board also isn't super dry either and doesn't hit our range too hard, so we shouldn't be expecting a ton of folds and shouldn't be betting too wide either. Hence I think optimal cbet range is around 35-50% max on this board texture 3-way.

This is even worse. You're saying you're gonna check hands that have marginal showdown value and bet everything else. This weakens your betting range EVEN MORE.

BTW, I'm totally fine betting KQx-KTx and basically any two overs with at least one or two s. The point is not that we shouldn't c-bet often. The point is that we should't be doing it with 100% of our non-showdown hands.

We want to show down or hands with showdown value so we check to not get blown off/not bloat the pot. We want to win the pot on the flop with weak hands, and build the pot with strong hands.My strategy is pretty straightforward here.

If you want to argue at what frequency we should be betting air that's one thing, but to add a hand like A2 for the purpose of strengthening our cbet range is pretty absurd. It wouldn't be for value since continuing ranges have us beat, and we have many worse hands with better likelihood to improve to use as bluffs.

Also for the record I'm not advocating a 100% cbet frequency with broadways, just a good chunk of the time.

Then we agree. The method by which we determine which times to cbet is by card removal and backdoor (i.e. having a diamond or two clubs or a backdoor straight draw).

My point is that we shouldn't be bluffing with the hands with none of these things going for it.

I meant that if our strategy was to bet 100% of our air, then we should also bet our weak showdownable hands too or else our check-back range contains exactly just showdownable hands, which is not great.

Edit: one of the major points of checking back showdownable hands is to induce bluffs and get to showdown cheaper. If our entire check-back range is this type of hand, we're not gonna induce bluffs and would be better off betting these hands for protection and avoiding giving away information about our hand. This is why we need to give up occasionally with our weakest hands. When we give up some of the time, we can actually induce bluffs with our weak showdownable hands.

This is what I would do. Having the extra diamonds helps our cbet a little, blocks their FD calling range by a bit and gives us extra equity on later runouts where we can either check to realize free diamond equity or possibly profitably dbl/triple barrel. Plus we need some bluffing hands, and broadways with one diamond and broadways with double clubs are good candidates