I think the concepts in the book apply just as well to live games, even though it talks about online 6 max games. IMO it is super applicable to live games and I say this as a person who plays only live games.

I wonder which books you think are better. i've read plenty of books and haven't read any that did more for my NL game than that one.

i'll tell you what. you fold the hand, give me $5 every time you do and i'll bet you come out ahead in the deal.

i'd be willing to bet all of these hands are losing hands UTG in a 9-10 handed game. in too many games you're going to end up 3-6 to the flop with hands that don't flop strong, OOP, in bloated pots. pretty much the nut worst result.


RE Miller/doug hull books.

they're all pretty good, but you have to take them with a grain of salt. they cherry pick hands that suit their examples and they have like 3-5 players who are contributing to the book to choose hands to pick from.

miller's hand reading book and playing the player are pretty important for a new players though. most people starting out really need to learn those skills and they help teach them. the earlier a player starts learning those skills the better

+1, imo, it's simply suicide at the loose tables I play at

Gthankfully,Iplaywithalotofverydepressedpeopleandd oquitewellagainstthemG

The reason Miller's utg ranges look wide is because he lumps utg into "early position" which he defines as everything between the BB and the cutoff. He explains that "in theory" earlier positions should be tighter than later but that he chose to sacrifice that accuracy for the sake of simplicity. I think this is as much practice as theory.

My HJ and utg ranges are substantially different at the average table and I would suggest subdividing the ep ranges.

miller also suggests that you tweak his ranges to suit.

My typical ranges were significantly different than what Miller suggests. I've actually changed my thinking a bit trading some big unsuited combos for some middling suited combos in part due to this book and in part due to some other work I was doing.

Lol though at "raise Ax suited??? I don't even limp that utg" you might have missed the entire point.

Recommendations for what book I should read first here now in early 2016??

What would you guys recommend for live and online??

I was probably going to get harrington's 6 ring online cash book. Thoughts??

And best for live? Thanks guys

For live play, Ed Miller's Playing the Course. Don't worry about the nay sayers who are concerned about Ed's advice regarding raising A2s and 76s etc. in early position. Just raise away. These hands, in this exact situation, come up very rarely. Actually, the pre flop strategy recommended by Ed is very tight for the 1/2 live games and will put you way ahead of your average 1/2 player who plays way too many hands pre-flop.

You mean The Course, correct? Good to know, actually had Playing the Player in my cart at Amazon but not The Course.

My recommended reading list for myself in 2016:

Read every book I own again & this time write test questions. Try to get as many 'good' test questions as possible.

There will be 2 tests from each book........one multiple choice, one not.

On the answer sheet, I'll have the page the question came from along with the answer.

Then I'll read a COTM, along with the comments - compiling a list of test questions the same way. When I'm done, I'll take the test [multiple choice] from the book I read. After reviewing the sections that need review, I'll read another book....then take the test from the COTM........you see where this is going, right?

After that, I'll take the test [without the multiple choices] from the 1st book.

I don't need to buy another book in 2016. Probably won't need one in 2017. No more shiny new books from Amazon for me.

1st & most importantly: I'll keep a more thorough diary of my poker sessions.

Thought for the day: The average football game from snap to whistle, totals ~15 minutes. They go over their game plan during the week for hours and hours.

The three books I picked up the most to review most often in 2015: AONLH by Matthew Janda, NLHT&P by Ed Miller & David Sklansky & Mike Petriv's Hold Em Odds Book

I don't think my nose was buried in those books as much as it was in those COTMs trying to figure out how I can be as smart as the authors of them are.

I personally don't think anyone should touch Janda's book until he/she can show work using range and math in every discussion in this forum.

My math is definitely lacking and the weakest part of my game. I have a basic understanding of pot odds and our equity with the most common draws. What would you recommend I read to improve my math (for a beginner with no calculus experience)??

You can check out Poker Math That Matters. Author does read this forum and post.

It would be a good starter for most players.

If your a beginer-ish level player Playing the Player and his book on combomertrics are eye opening. Those 2 books are probably good retreads for most skill level players until those things become second nature

About 30% through The Course, and not sure I agree. He talks of flopping top pair, top kicker, and rather than win it there, try to get to showdown with it to win more money. I don't get this at all. Harrington says just the opposite. Case in point, last Saturday, I had TJ suited, flop comes 8,9,Q, so I flopped a straight. Pre flop opener C bets. I call. He bets the turn, after a second 9 hits. He bets the river, now all in. I call and he asks, "you have a 9"? He lost $100 betting AQ, or top pair, top kicker all the way to showdown, just like Miller suggests. Harrington, on the other hand, says, "if you are still getting action past the flop on top pair, top kicker, assume you're behind." And, "try to win it right there, as top pair unlikely to win at showdown." There is just no way I am betting top pair, top kicker, til the river. In fact, by slowplaying flopped sets, I can't count all the money I lost on the river to straights and flushes. From now on, I am betting no less than 1/2 the pot on the turn card to make calling unprofitable. In fact, if there's a possibility of 15 outs, or basically 2 to 1 odds of making a drawing hand, I am betting the pot, which still gives decent odds to a caller, 2.07 to 1 in hitting vs 2 to 1 expressed odds, but as I don't know he has 15 outs, I will take my chances. Miller seems to think opponents are dumb. Harrington states, "top players will not pot commit with top pair, top kicker." I agree. Keep in mind, the hand I noted vs the AQ, my straight was hidden, but my view is that if have AQ, and there's a queen on the board, and opponents keep calling post flop, they have at least a Q beat. I'll bet the flop and turn, but if I'm second to act, I'm checking the river. Of course this is all board dependent, but I'm unlikely to get big money out of someone who's got QT all the way to the river. So, why bet it til then? Good players are only likely to call if they have a Q beat.

Wow, wall of text!

Harrington's stuff is a bit outdated. The Course is a year old.

Your fundamental problem is that you can't infer anything from 1 hand of poker.

If you want a real proof, go get tons of data from 25nl and lower and sort through the data. You'll probably find really quickly that value betting TPTK is going to be very profitable against weak opponents. It will easily gain more value than the times you value cut yourself

Thank you. Checking this out now, looks solid.

Is this a joke?

this is all clearly game and villain dependant

Hi all,

I recently transitioned from online poker to live.

I only play tournaments with buy ins of about 25 to 35 euro. Usually 50-70 entrants per tournament.

Im looking for some book recommendations that suit me - obviously something that is still relevant and not outdated. Recently published is preferred!

Thank you

finto787 -

No Limit Hold'em: Theory & Practice

read it, review it, read it again (and of course play throughout trying various concepts).

once you feel you've got it down, then expand to other books (psychology of poker, pro poker, caro's book of tells, etc)

Thanks alot - I will check it out.

I have quit online and moved straight to live tournaments.

I am used to raising 3xbb, whereas in these tournaments 5xbb is the norm.
Also a lot of the players tend to be loose aggressive which I find it difficult to play against!

Way more fun and intense playing live, I completely suck at bluffing - I get too nervous

EDIT:
This book was published in 2006 - relatively recent, but hasn't the way poker is played changed quite a bit since then? I could easily be wrong here.

The games have changed quite a bit, but online exponentially more so than live. I think that knowing what were the fundamentals in 2006 would more than pave the way for some success in Live NLHE (At the lowest stakes at least).

Live games have plenty of players who have been playing the same way since 2006, or in some cases since 1976 lol.

Also the book doesn't have much "Do this because your opponents will do this" type of advice. It's a book that should age very well. The Mike Caro book shows more obvious signs of age and is much older.

Foundation books are good forever.

Latest fashion books are obviously dated.

Harrington on Hold'em Vol 1 & 2

Still applies in the tourneys I've played in. Tournament Poker for Advanced Players by DS is useful after Harrington and some tourney experience.