Or qq. This guy always loses with queens so now he just shoves them pre haha

This is one of my favorite donkaliscious hands of all time

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/17...-leak-1146074/

Its in the 1st post and just gives me a warm fuzzy every time I think about it...

AK misses
1/2/3 NL effective stacks of $300.

V1 UTG clueless, semi aggressive opens for $13.

Two callers, one drunk and one weak reg.

Hero 3bets to $50 from BU with AKs.

V2 playing 90% of hands, but ok post flop play in Small Blind cold calls.

V1 calls and drunk calls.

Flop ($213)
T 9 4 r

V2 bets $30, V1 raises to $60. Hero folds.

Hand gets to showdown. V2 shows A9o. V1 wins with QTo.

Any issues with Hero's play?

u have to fold the flop. U likely have no fold equity and are way behind most likely. A bet with ak isnt always mandatory. If u do 3bet with it u have to make it big enough to limit callers. We don't know the size of ur 3bet so not much more can be said

Now that you've edited to show your 3 bet I can say that it was too small. I'm always amazed at the shocking amounts people will call with preflop if thy think they're priced in. All it takes is one call and all of a sudden Atc is somehow priced in for 1/3 o their stack. You can make it $65 here and get one caller. If you get more than one caller you are shipping any flop anyway.

I got over it a long time ago. I do, however, make a mental note that a player could be a bit of an exploitable TAGfish if they consistently fail to give other players credit for making loose calls and get stacked way too often by "ridiculous" hands.

One of the easiest players to take advantage of is a stereotypical internet kid who shows the awareness of thinking in terms of hand ranges but then is really bad at putting people on ranges.

Someone wrote that the biggest mistakes are usually made because we try to apply our Lou to others. This would apply I think.

I didn't come here to win or lose a little

Table is about to break. Late night. Everyone is ready to go home. Everyone limps. Flop comes monotone. Villain who hasn't shut up all night sees a bet and 3 bet in front of him. He pauses then slams his last $60 into the middle with no hope of folding anyone out with middle pair. Hero thanks him as he ships his flopped flush.

Villain mistakes-
1. playing q5o
2. Playing until he doesn't care anymore
3. Assuming that cashing out $ 60 after buying in for $300 is no worse than cashing out for $0.

Every dollar counts. Don't be a fish. Leave when you should.

1/2

SB: Old Asian man, playing super nitty. Bought in for 150 sitting at over 300 after doubling up with pocket aces.

UTG: young 20 something guy just came from the pit, bought in for 175 with greens and is up to 300 after chasing a straight draw and hitting. Very loose-passive.

UTG limps, CO limps, SB completes, BB checks

Flop $8
KJT
SB bets $25, fold, UTG calls, CO fold

Turn $52
KJT7
SB bets $150, UTG shoves $300, SB calls

SB AQo
UTG Q9o

Obviously the old guy has the nuts here 100 percent of the time but the young guy can't deal with the prospect of folding his second nut so he just shoves to avoid having to make a hard call, I guess.

I'm pretty sure the young guy didn't spend a second thinking about what the old guy could possibly have he just looked at it and thought it was pretty strong and went with that

I refer to these players simply as degenerates. They physically cannot leave the casino until they are broke. It's rather sad actually since they usually have a gambling problem. However, they are going to lose their money so once you recognize it, make sure to stick around until they do.

Example I saw 2 weeks ago:

Young guy about 27 loses his initial $300, buys in for $300 more starts playing every hand by limping like J-7o, etc. Eventually wins a big pot and gets to $700. Cashout time? Nope! He slowly loses money until down to $300 and his friend comes up to him and asks him when they are going to leave. He continues to play for 3 more hours losing money until down to under $100. Then he starts blind shipping all in hands like T5o which he doubled up vs QQ. He sticks around and eventually busts.

The entire time the guy was playing he treated the game like a slot machine. He had to keep seeing flops and couldn't leave until the money was gone.

Maybe I'm a donkey but I play the Q9 the same (other than limping it utg). The guy can have set or 2p too. Jamming turn BC he is less likely to fold them now then on a bad river (heart or board pair if he has 2p).

I recall one fish who went on an insane heater. He started with 100 and called massive pre flop raises with ATC and flopped nuts every time. Sitting on 650.

UTG BE Reg 200
MP Fish 650
CO Decent tag reg 400
BTN Good ABC reg 800

UTG raises 12, MP call, CO raises 35, BTN raises 120, UTG all-in 200, MP call, CO fold, BTN all-in, MP call 650

UTG shows AKs
BTN shows QQ

MP stands up like he's at a sports game, fists clenched in anticipation

Flop T97

MP screams WOOOOOOO and tables J8o

Turn 7
River Q

MP turns into a statue, everyone at the table witnesses the soul being sucked out of his body, he stares at the table in abject shock for another minute before slinking away.

Maybe too fantastic a story for this thread but fish-on-a-heater is a pretty typical llsnl thing right?

Q9 is second nuts on a dripping wet board. There is nothing donkalicious about getting coolered there.

Please keep dgi's original mandate of this thread being about "typical and majority situations" to be used for teaching purposes in mind. Let's not drift into BBV territory.

I do this sometimes

I think it's too late to delete my 2nd post

The first one though, that is a typical situation. When a super nitty guy massively over bets, and there's only one hand he could have, well, he has it. And when a fish has a strong non-nut hand, and he doesn't know what to do, he tends to do the worst thing possible (value-own himself by shoving so he doesn't have to think). And let's not forget, the old guy is only getting paid by one hand with that line (and that happens to be the one in a thousand times his opponent has it)

It's a 'cooler' hand but I think it exemplifies two very typical methodologies well.

People love to call things coolers, but when can a hand involving q9o ever be a cooler? Maybe bb flops 999 vs slow played Aa with a run out of Aa. Hen it's a cooler. It's only a cooler if you didn't make any mistakes.

You played river perfect I'm not sure why you don't like it, the flop is in question though

I didn't catch the overbetting first time and the exposition here is useful. But it is interesting to put these overbets next to the overbets discussed above when donks massively overbet preflop with mid pairs.

And putting myself in UTG's place - after I have punched myself in the nuts for limping Q9o UTG - I can see convincing myself that SB is overbetting to protect two pair/sets from the flush and straight draws on the board frequently enough to make this a call. SB simply completed preflop, he certainly can have KJ, K10, JJ, TT and be pounding the flop/turn to charge draw chasers. Not to mention that we should discount AQ in his range, since he only limped.

I think the hand is typical, and I think that mistakes were made, but I also think that UTG's play (post-flop) is not all that donkish.

And SB's overbets are also reasonable against a fish calling station who won't release draws. Remember dgi's epiphany - bad players call for a lot more money than you would expect so charge them more than you personally would pay.

agreed.

Getting stacked with the second nuts (regardless of how you got there) is never donkalicious in a LLSNL game especially when there are other hands/draws that could stack off.

Is UTG supposed to fold his second nuts on the turn in that spot? Again, I don't want to drift into the 'atypical less than 4% of the time' situations...

I want this thread to be about representative and TYPICAL hands. And they don't even have to be epic stack offs. Simple 20bb and 40bb hands are perfectly fine as well

2/5 game. CO limps, SB completes, I check Q7.

Flop ($15) A A 10

I bet $15, both call.

Turn ($60) 5

Checked around.

River ($60) K

SB bets $40. I make it $115. SB tanks and calls. He shows his neighbor a card when sees my flush.

So he had an ace, check/called it on a flush draw board when 2 people put money in the pot. Turn he checked, probably going for a check/raise, but surprise surprise, it got checked around. River, the flush gets there, and he bets, even though there is no hand worse than A no kicker that will call, and then he pays off the raise. Whether it's because he thinks trip aces is too big a hand to fold, or he wants to bemoan his bad luck, it doesn't matter.

Lessons: You can always raise/fold the river here against this type of player to squeeze that thin value. He will bet/call his trips and lower flushes and bet/3bet his boats.

Good advice, I don't raise/fold enough.

Just ask yourself when the last time was that you saw someone 3b bluff the river. That should tell you all you need to know.

i am going to do this in my next session.

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but I used to really interpret the c/c c/c lead out line. For example, unknown younger guy on my right limps, I raise to $12 with AKxx he calls heads up to ThTc2h flop. He checks I bet $20 he calls. Turn 4x he checks I bet $40 he calls. River Kx he shoves all in for about $100. I tank and call assuming this is a busted flush draw type of line. Villain shows T9 for flopped trips.

I've seen this line multiple times and have yet to see someone lose the pot with it. The mindset must be "I'll make sure not to scare him away then try to get max value on the river." It usually comes with some sort of shrug or body language on the river that tries to show weakness.

Dumb question again. Does float mean call whith an assumed to be lesser hand with the intention of betting if V checks or folding if V fires again?