1$/3$ Rake: 5% 10$CAP

2$/5$ Rake: 5% 10$CAP

5$/10$ Rake: 2,5% 20$CAP


(sorry if this belongs somewhere else)

I would try to post in the live lowstakes forum.

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Moved from Poker Theory

5% capped at £10 is the same as my casino at 1/2, 1/3 and 2/5. 1/1 is 10% capped at £5. I think it's pretty standard but that's not the same as it being good value or particularly beatable!

Hmm... i don't like the high cap.

Mine is 10% capped at $4 + $1 BBJ drop pre flop.

If no flop, no drop. Since almost every hand is capped on the rake the cap is of greater concern to me than the %. Yours looks poor in comparison.

+1

Where I play, it's 10% capped at $6. There's another place I play at that is 10% capped at $6, but $2 max rake from 11AM-1PM.

It seems high, most places are 10% but the higher cap will mostly offset that

Also its a very bad deal for 5/10, which is often a time game

No drop is good but the cap is higher than normal. I don't know if the lack of a drop balances out with the 10 dollar cap.

Where I play it's 2 drop + 10% capped at 5.

This is horrible for limped pots and stealing. In your case reaching the cap at 1/2 will occur for 200+ pots. Depending how common these are it might not be that bad. Let's do a comparison...

Where I play the following size pots would be raked as follows:

10 dollars: 3 dollars
20 dollars: 4 dollars
30 dollars: 5 dollars
40 dollars: 6 dollars
50+ dollars: 7 dollars

This is really bad at 1/2 as limped pots that get checked down are common, and typically result in someone winning 70% of the pot, and most raised pots hit the cap pretty quickly.

Where you play at 1/2 the following pots would be raked as follows:

10 dollars: .5 dollars
20 dollars: 1 dollar
40 dollars: 2 dollars
60 dollars: 3 dollars
80 dollars: 4 dollars
100 dollars: 5 dollars
120 dollars: 6 dollars
140 dollars: 7 dollars
160 dollars: 8 dollars
180 dollars: 9 dollars
200+ dollars: 10 dollars

So your casino 1/2 game is better up to 140 dollar pots and much better in pots less than 50 dollars.

Given the relative rarity of large pots (maybe you're in 1 an hour?) I think I prefer your rake structure.

Just be mindful in large pots where a decision is close to take out the rake when accounting for winnings. I also would be tempted to steal more, 3 bet bluff more pre flop, and in general bluff more to try to take the pot down while it's smaller.

The 5/T is very bad though. Where I play it's 14 dollars an hour time rake. I wonder if your 5/T game is even beatable. One large pot per hour and you're already paying more rake than is typical.

Shai Hulud's rake is gross. I took a trip to Jacksonville FL 2 summers ago; wanted to turn around & go home. Played a little poker, did some dining site seeing & came home early. OP's rake structure makes me want to puke.

Mine: No flop = no drop or BBJ rake. V opens for $10; I 3-bet $25; V 4! $80; I 5! $320, he folds = no rake.

10% max $5 with $1 for BBJ @ $10 and another $1 @ $30

I play in the Midwest, and we deal with pretty high rake around here. My home casino is 10% $5 max rake + $2 for the promo fund. It's no-flop-no-drop, so no matter how big the pot gets PF nothing gets taken out of the pot unless there's a flop. They just recently changed to from $1 to $2 for the promo fund so I'm no totally sure how they pull it out. I think it's $1 at $20 and then the 2nd $1 at $40-$50.

$10 is a high max rake, but most rooms are 10% so 5% will offset some of the high cap (at least at the 1/3 game). In pots of $120 or less you're going to be paying $6 or less in rake, so you're only getting hit really hard in pots larger than that. Most pots are less than that in standard 1/3 games, so you're not going to be feeling the full brunt of the $10 rake that often. In pots of $60 or less (which will be a large portion of pots at the low stakes), you're actually going to be paying less rake than those that are playing a 10%, $6 max game. This seems like a rake structure that hits the higher stakes games a lot harder than it hits the 1/3 games.

Welcome to Florida. This is pretty standard everywhere in Florida (although my room is no flop no drop).

Everyone got it wrong.

It depends how good the game is. There are games where I've driven 160 miles roundtrip and paid a $6+1+tip. And games with a 20 mile roundtrip drive to pay $4+tip. I'd so much rather play in those former games every day.

^ fair point

Sure but I doubt the games in Tampa for instance are soft enough that the huge rake is worth it compared to say, Vegas, at least at the 1/2 level. I figure the difference in rake is at least 2 dollars more per hand average, which lowers winrate by several BB/hr (all things being equal). The games may be softer here but I really really doubt it makes up for the ridiculous rake.

Lately I run into so many tight passive tables where typical action is 1 to 3 limps, blinds limp, it gets checked down. People limp hands like AQ and then check when it hits. This dynamic is horrible. With 3 limpers and the blinds the pot is initially 10 but you win 7. So most of these kind of pots are being raked close to 30%.

Nothing to be done about it I suppose except try to move up to games with less brutal structure.

I don't know where OP is playing, but the point is to consider the games and the rake together.

But I would've killed for 5-way limped pots in Vegas. Are guys limp/folding TT for an extra $12 in Tampa?

Eldiesel is correct IMO. The rake is only a small part of the equation. Rake + population tendencies + specific opponents' tendencies + stack sizes + hero's ability to adjust to exploit the game = profitability.


For example:

In my 1/1 £40 to £200 buy-in game rake is 10% capped at £5 but with £1 from every pot for BBJP and loyalty tournament. This means a £20 pot is raked £3 and pots have to go above £120 before rake drops below 5%

That makes small/medium pots very heavily raked so I need a big edge in these pots. Stealing pre or on the flop is not profitable.

There is little scope to isolate weak players from position because the population believes in the mistaken concepts of "being priced in". Big isolation raises with speculative haves lead to high variance situations that see me get crushed by the rake. Smaller isolation raises with speculative hands usually risk too much preflop compared to the occasional big pot I'll win when I make the effective nuts MW in a medium SPR pot.

As far as I know the only profitable approach to my particular game is to open and isolate tight and strong so that I win most small/medium sized pots I enter while trying to get into MW pots with very high SPRs while IP with speculative hands with good nut-making potential.

It makes for a boring game but I've managed to slowly accumulate a £4,250 roll over 500 hours. That's slower than necessary because I occasionally go off-strategy, ostensibly for cheap learning purposes but more truthfully out of boredom. Also the fact I started with a roll of £400 meant playing with a shorter stack than was ideal for a fair number of those hours.

So, even this seemingly unbeatable rake is beatable with the right strategy and under the correct game conditions. That is assuming I haven't just got lucky but honestly I believe I've run quite badly the entire time and I know because I have a ton of experience of various lengths of run good and bad from online play over millions of hands.