Raising with A9 in MP - fools game? - Live Low-stakes No Limit Poker Forum

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Raising with A9 in MP - fools game?

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10-20-2014 , 10:31 PM

Jackarmin

enthusiast

Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 94

So playing 1/1, and theres a straddle utg to 2.

Hero MP £100
BB - tight, quite nitty £70
UTG+1 - quite loose and aggressive

Hero has A9s and raises PF to £8.

Folds Round to BB who calls, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls

Pot £25

Flop A62r

Checks to hero, who raises to £13

BB folds, +1 calls

Turn 3, BB checks, hero checks

River 6, BB raises to £20

What does hero do?

Range is quite wide here as he's a pretty loose player

Should i not be raising with A9 pre? I hate limping, should I just throw it away in early position?

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10-20-2014 , 10:57 PM

Garick

Oberbiergenießer

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 26,516

So UTG limp/called? What is his stack? Yours?

If effective stacks are 100, I just fold A9s in MP. If stacks were about 200, I can overlimp it.

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10-20-2014 , 11:37 PM

QuadJ

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 6,237

Who is still in hand on river, your write up doesn't line up. You said BB is nitty, in which case fold on the river is probably best. If it's UTG+1, then it's more of a read situation, call some of the time and fold some of the time.

Preflop, what is his UTG range? If he is really loose even in EP and you think most people behind will fold then raising is OK. If stacks are deep you can limp in behind occasionally. For the most part though, A9s isn't worth messing around with unless your opening.

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10-21-2014 , 12:01 AM

alienbogey

centurion

Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 152

Sorry to be a terminology nit, but one opens the betting in any given round with a bet, not a raise.

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10-21-2014 , 12:04 AM

Lapidator

LLSNL Frequent Flyer

Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 13,762

You could actually never play A9, and probably help your win rate dramatically.

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10-21-2014 , 05:01 AM

spooner90

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 1,776

What is this fold pre crap? We are in MP not EP. Raise to 8 quid as played. As for river, fold. We are calling UTG+1 in this spot but not BB.

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10-21-2014 , 05:08 AM

Jackarmin

enthusiast

Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 94

Just to clarify, BB folds on flop. UTG folded preflop, and UTG+1 limp called preflop with about £100

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10-21-2014 , 06:51 AM

venice10

Referee

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 25,855

Raising with A9 in MP is fine at most tables where you're not going to go 4+ ways on the flop. I like how it was played, now call the river because he's going to show a smaller pair a lot of the time if he's loose and aggressive.

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10-21-2014 , 07:07 AM

Jackarmin

enthusiast

Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 94

Spoiler:

On this topic, whats the general consensus, if any, on Ax suited preflop? Very speculative hand, more so than set mining? Do we limp or raise? Isn't limping then raising to any fold just so amateur?

Last edited by Garick; 10-21-2014 at 07:31 AM.

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10-21-2014 , 01:01 PM

#10

QuadJ

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 6,237

You won't get an consensus on the middle suited aces AJs-A9s. They are neither strong value or speculative hands. Knowing if folding, limping or raising is best is very situational.

If the EP limper is a tight/passive and like to limp/call with AK/AQ and doesn't have weak hands in his range then there is no value in the middle aces. If EP limper is predictably aggressive and always raises AT+ in EP and only limps weak speculative hands, then you can raise for straight value. Complicating that is figuring in any additional limpers, stack sizes, possible action after, post flop play tendencies and such.

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10-21-2014 , 02:08 PM

#11

Tucco

grinder

Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 651

A9s is probably fine to open MP in most games. A9o is a fold usually.

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10-21-2014 , 03:47 PM

#12

chendawg

centurion

Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 189

It's very situational. With tight players, I'd only play A9 suited limping in mid position. With loose passive players I'd raise for value with A9 suited. It's a tricky hand to play. In EP I just fold.

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10-21-2014 , 08:58 PM

#13

mtagliaf

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 5,649

You played this hand fine. Most of the time villain will flop nothing and you'll win with a CBet, no matter what your cards are or how they connected with the board. Sometimes, you'll value own yourself with kicker problems like here, but you'll win more overall from the former than you lose from the latter.

Your check on the turn is a good one - it keeps the stack the appropriate size for your hand strength, and also makes it possible in villain's mind that you are NOT holding an ace, making him more comfortable with weaker pairs.

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10-21-2014 , 09:33 PM

#14

Nozsr

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 1,722

When I want to vary my play I like raising A9 in MP.

But we need to honor resistance and assume that anyone who calls our raise has a good chance of dominating our A9.

If the C-bet doesn't take the pot we need to shut it down.

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10-22-2014 , 02:18 AM

#15

johnnyBuz

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 7,563

I think the hand was played fine, and played especially well by UTG+1. If V had A8s this wouldn't even be a thread.

You are getting 3.5:1 on the river meaning you only have to be good 22% of the time to break even. Against a described loose LAG that is a no brainer call. That said, you can avoid this situation by tightening up to ATs+ but I can't fault A9s in MP here.

If it's not a call, then any decent player will exploit you by check/calling your c-bet, check/check the turn and leading the river.

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Originally Posted by mtagliaf

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10-22-2014 , 10:53 AM

#16

PokerIsTooEasy

banned

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 1,004

Raising is ok. Limping is fine too. If there were a few limpers in front then a bad suited Ace like this actually plays better multiway so a limp is in order.

Prefer a check back on this flop unless you are against a calling station type that will call you down with a lower pair.

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