Game is 2/2 ; 9 handed

Hero: 20s Guy. Been playing a fairly tight, but with a decent amount of speculative hands.

Villain: 20s Guy. Is on my right, rather loose pre with more limps than raises. Has made a few questionable plays, calling and drawing out when he was behind; all kind of tilty calls. So a bit fishy, but kind of unpredictable.

OTTH:

500$ Villain UTG+1 - Limps first in
180$ Hero UTG+2 - Raises to 12$ with TT

Folds to Villain who calls, but doesn't seem happy I raised his limp.
Pot: 26$

Flop: 237

Villain bets 10$ into me.
Call or raise? Hand played out very weird.

On a second note, what is the best way to study and become better at LLSNL. I am very new to it but enjoy it a lot. So far I've read most of HOC1+2 and concepts in the Best Of thread here on 2+2. What is the best way to continue after that? Other than 2+2HHs. (Other books, threads, video sites).

Thank you!

Raise...u are IP(makes it easier to play in this spot) and u can get value from so many other hands that will call you.

Besides with only 100bb effective, you got to gii if he 3bets

Yes that does make sense.

But isn't that a point to overvalue overpairs? I think I might play them too scared.


Anyway, I call and turn is a: 2 and he bets 30$

Preflop: Fine.

Flop: Call. This is a WAWB (Way ahead or Way behind) scenario where either you are totally crushing your opponent's hand or he is totally crushing yours, and in both cases the WB hand is unlikely to draw out. Raising it up will usually cause UTG to fold when you are WA, and reraise when you are WB, so it's sort of pointless to do anything but call here. The general plan here is to call down his bets if he keeps firing, and bet yourself if he checks the turn.

That said, calling with AA is a much easier play than calling with TT because overcards can come to TT which can make it harder to call down on the later streets (overcards, obviously, not being a problem for AA). So raising isn't horrible here, but calling is still the better play.

Just my opinion...

Id probably raise flop smallish to something like 30-35 to get value from hands like A7s 88 99. Bad players donk a lot of one pair hands here. I'd actually fold to a big raise though from the described player.

I like getting a little value here otf because a lot of his range may not continue when overcards fall ott or river.

A stationing line is fine too.

Your range is way ahead of his range and as moneyline said, any overcard puts you in a guessing game if he comes betting the turn again

Well I ended up calling the Flop and the turn bets thinking it was WAWB situation, but retrospectively I could've raised the flop.

The river is a 4 , goes check check and he shows down a made straight OTR with 65 . Everyone scratching their heads as to why the hell he didnt bet the end. His excuse was he didn't think I'd call, which I obviously was.

Knowing this I ofcourse played it fine but still feel like raising the flop should be a thing, just uncomfortable being donked into since villain wasn't very aggressive up to that point.

The other night I had a player donk flop in two different hands. Both I took a station line. The first I actually folded a horrible river he bombed the second I put a lot of FDs and some made 2p+ in his range and decided to station TPTK. He had a FD but backed into a straight.

So station lines can allow v to hang themselves with worse value hands or bluffs but against bad players who often will make calling errors I feel getting value early in the hand is good. With position we frequently can pot control later if need be and we don't give their draws free cards. Against these weaker players when they do come over the top of our flop raise it's usually an easy fold since they rarely bluff raise. The problem is hands like AA on a low flop where a v could be overplaying a hand like JJ.

Against good players I'm not as trigger happy raising their donk bets when I believe their donking range includes strong value hands 2p+.

One thing to pay attention to is their sizing. Players who like to donk often do it a lot. By watching showdowns you can often pick up a sizing tell on their donk bets.

I would reccomend this thread. http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/17...lysis-1557357/

In it Mpethybridge lays out the most comprehensive plan for study at live poker that exists anywhere (I think). Even if you don't do the whole program, it can at least show you how to do what needs to be done.

Thats the key! Get off your phones and watch every hand that youre not in.

The best books that I've read are Harrington on cash and No Limit Holdem Theory and Practice by David Sklansky and Ed Miller. I'm now reading Easy Game by Andrew Seidman (BalugaWhale).

Also, watch Live at the Bike on twitch. It helps show you how people play their hands.

Okay so station and raise are probably all fine. I was definetly watching him all night, but that was the first time he donked :/
Going to check out the thread now spikeraw22 TYVM!!!
as to NLHT&P isn't it very similar to HOC? will look into it anyway

^ Just value bet and tend to bet on the large side. He'll let you know when he has a real hand. He's an ideal opponent; don't "pot control," just consistently get value for your hand and you'll be way ahead in the long run.

Read Bobbo's Bible.

You will get more/better responses if you wait longer to post the results.

I almost always raise small donk bets before I know what they mean as they are often weak made hands looking to "see where they're at" or draws looking for a cheap turn.

Even against a more passive villain who doesn't have a history of donk betting I think I would raise depending on your sample size. There are no good draws to charge, but he is stationy and will call with worse made hands. Raising also helps you narrow his range if he will 3! with his sets and call with worse made hands, so your future decisions will be easier.

I am absolutely not getting it in if he 3-bets the flop.

Against described V and with small bet I'm prolly popping this. Kind of a dry board tho so I might just peel one and be prepared to raise turn if no scare card and similar line from v.

Big factors vs donk bettors:

1. what kind of player is the donker.
2. how big is the bet? smallish ones are often draws, or weak pairs. I see a lot of Vs donk big with big made hands.
3. how does the board look.

I wouldn't really classify this as a WA/WB situation, more like a Moderately ahead/way behind.

I would definitely raise his flop bet to $30-$35 and go from there. As played, I guess I just station with only one street to go, unless you think he will call it off with 7x, 88, or 99, in which case raise/gii.

Raise to $35-$45.

Raise to $75-$90, and plan to GII.

these weak leads are what fish do when they have some kind of bad pair/draw (not to be confused with a large donkbet, which is what they do to protect a big hand)

Remember, everyone always puts you on AK right? So he's betting here because he thinks he might have the best hand but he cant be sure. If you raise him they often fold because they finally put you on a big hand. We dont really want him to fold, but we cant just let him set the price with A4o or K7s something and actually get there with it. So 9/10 times our value bet will push them out.

Call. Fishy villains donk this kind of board often with very marginal holdings because they think you missed and don't want you checking back and drawing out on them. I think he likely has something like 55 or 66 here and raising will likely fold him out instead of letting him barrel later. Also when he does show up with the 23 or a set you're forced to get it in.
If you're going to raise at all, maybe min raise because it's really hard for most villain's to fold to a min raise. This at least lets you get more money in the pot with the best hand but I prefer calling and giving him a chance to keep betting if the turn bricks.

Addressing your second question: the best way to get better at LLSNL IMO is to play microstakes online. You can put in a ton of hand and review them easily and see where your leaks are.
The best information I have ever studied is stickied in the memorable strategy threads in Micro Stakes PL/NL. Read all of those (and there are a ton) and you'll off to a real good start. Most of them translate well to live play.
GL.

Late to the party, but like others have mentioned: this weak donk bets is something fishy villains often does with mediocre holdings wich they have no clue how to play postflop. They dont want to face a strong C-bet from you so they is trying to set their own price with kind of feeler bet.

Raise right away for value, take the aggro route. Its also good for your image starting to build a little dynamic with this villain, wich for sure can possible pay off huge later on in the session.

I'm also raising this with a fair amount of the air in my range as well. Against bad players obv we can cheat the sizing a little.

Agreed, but as we don't have air, I think calling is best as a raise folds out most if his range that we beat.

I like just calling here instead of raising. Like somebody said you are usually way ahead or way behind. If it's a fishy player I would expect to be way ahead more times than behind.

Just calling keeps your range "wide" to him. A fishy player will almost always put you on two over cards when you just flat call. This means they will usually bet the turn or check/call with worse. Flat calling will get you the most value when you are ahead.

If the player is a good/solid player that donked into you, proceed with caution. The flop bet could have been meant to induce a raise and commitment from an over pair. Even then, most good/decent players don't donk bet enough in this spot when they flop a set.