Villain is UTG+1 but he is not positionally aware. He has a hard time laying down top pair mediocre+ kicker, and when he does folds, often complains post river about having laid down the best hand. He has just won a large pot calling an all in of QQ with AQ off preflop. 300ish behind

Hero is likely perceived as a maniac. Been playing at this facility for 3 months and am WAAAAAY up playing 1/2. Have lots of hand history with villain, and it seems as though he never believes I have a made hand. 550ish behind.

UTG+1 limps for $2, 3 more limpers come along. Hero is OTB with KK and make it $20 to go (have made this raise twice before in the last hour and gotten 2+ callers and taken the hand down on the river showing AA once, and no show the other)
SB calls, villain calls.
Flop:
A94
Villain checks, hero bets $40. SB folds and villain flats.
Turn:
7
Check check
River:
J

Do you barrel off on the turn with the nut flush draw here? I put villain on an A, and didn't think he'd lay it down regardless of what I bet, and didn't want to build a big pot if the spade or K didn't peel off. My thought process was that I would rather lose a relatively small pot by not firing, knowing that he would call a big bet on the river even if the spade ripped off.

Thoughts?

Villain can't simultaneously find it difficult laying down 1-pair hands AND frequently complain about folding the best hand. Typo in OP or read is off somehow.

You played it fine. You realized the full equity of your hand when you were likely behind after getting called OTF, and got value from some worse hands, namely those containing a single spade.

It's possible we could bet for value on the turn or river if villain is the type to chase draws til the bitter end, but I'd need a specific read to do this.

Rage, I am aware that this is conflicting. If he has top pair, he will often call off, but he folds almost all hands that are not TP and later complains. Sorry for the confusion.

OK that makes sense, hence you're pretty sure he's got the Ace or better and you have no fold equity on the turn.

Yeah I think in that case a one and done stab at the pot on the flop is fine here. V can't have the nfd as you have it and he folds everything worse than Aces. There is nothing more you can do once he calls the flop other than check it down and hope you improve. Perfectly played given the read.

Well played as rage said, he is basically going to call all better hands and fold most worse hands, it's easy to play against these guys.
You will lose the min here and often with the max in the same spot with KQss if he will never fold top pair against you.

If your read is right OP and you've seen him call bets OOP with Ax down to the river then you played it just fine. Barreling turn should only happen when you believe they'll fold even if you have the nut blocker to the flush. I think this has as much to do with you being viewed as a maniac too; perfect place for villain to call you down.

Does villain really call 2/3rd or even pot sized bet on river if spade hits though? Either you're a huge maniac or he's quite the fish.

In position, I'd always check this turn. As you said, he either has the A, and wont lay it down, or hes on a draw. Id find it more interesting what you would do if he bet the river.

You can also check flop.

That bet on the flop was a big mistake because you denied yourself a 4 card flop, so to speak, ... Why not get a free card? What if he c/r you on the flop? You got to fold in that situation missing the opportunity to have a 4 card flop where you can hit a free King for a set or another free for the nut flush.

Sometime becomes correct to semibluff with a big draw to the nuts but not in this situation. When you are in position with a big draw, the correct play is to see a free card and avoid the possibility of getting c/r and wasting the big draw and the $$.

You got the "Golden Bridge" in front of you but choose to get into the muddy waters

TLDR; checking flop is better but betting flop isn't awful.

Amoeba and Mamarolex are right, checking flop is a valid play.

I don't think betting flop is therefore bad though. It really depends on how your opponents play. Yes the main villain will only call with AX+ but when you bet flop SB is still live in the hand and he may call with a wide range including 9X QsXx JsXx. You can only get value from the draws while they are drawing unless they hit. Of course if they hit and you checked flop back it looks like you can only have a flush when you eventually become active on a 4 flush board. Therefore the flop bet buys you some deception - after your bet you can have a strong AX or even a set. That may help you get paid by a smaller flush later.

Alternatively you may bet, get called by a small flush or set that opts to slow play and then can't let go when you draw out to the nuts. The small flopped flush or set will sometimes sigh call on 4 flush after you bet flo. They will be half heartedly telling themself you're betting AX or two pair or a set and either missed the 4 flush or don't care.

Finally there is a chance you fold a better hand by betting the flop. We know main villain continues all AX but SB may have something like A2dd and decide your bet means a bigger Ace at minimum. In a perfect world SB folds a weak Ace and main villain peels one with QsQx and makes his flush on the turn.

Yes there is risk that you bet flop and get check raised off your equity and that would be bad undoubtedly. Whether the risk is so high as to put you off betting flop is open to question. If SB is viewing you as a maniac like main villain is then you are actually less likely to get raised as both villains will be looking to trap you bluffing rather than raise you off your bluffs. Still, the check flop line is guaranteed to get you a free turn and that shouldn't be cast aside lightly.

One final consideration in weighing the check vs bet flop options is that a flop bet will often get you a free river card because you are IP so villains will check turn to you fairly frequently after you bet flop.

Checking flop gets you a free turn but V with AX will often then bet the turn bigger than you would bet flop because he will correctly read you as behind and potentially drawing. Alternatively an astute villain with air or a small pair may choose to bluff the turn after your flop check. The bluff will likely be too big to call without implied odds. Notice that a player who may bluff turn is more difficult to call than a player who only bets turn for value. You have huge implied odds against main villain since he will go broke with top pair. Vs a villain who bluffs and Vbets turn you are unable to tell when your pair is good and unable to estimate your implied odds for making your flush. Therefore, bizarrely, against an opponent who bluffs with the correct frequency on the turn you will have to lay down your draw even though his range for betting is weaker than a non bluffer!

Betting flop can potentially save you money on your draw over turn and river but it certainly isn't guaranteed to do so. I think the main consideration in this hand is your strong read on the main villain. Since he can often have AX after calling your big preflop raise and he will go bust with it sometimes on a 4 flush and frequently lose a bet or two on a 4 flush then you should ignore SB and check the flop hoping to draw to flush or set and get paid by main villain.

Even if SB were a tough and tricky player you don't have to fear turn bluffs as much in this situation because of the main villain's sticky tendencies. SB, if he is tough, will be aware of main villain's style and will reign in his bluffs accordingly.

Pre-Flop: Good.

Flop: Ye, I bet 50~ if pot is 70.

Turn: Arguments for both. Check or Bet. I think I bet here. I bet because if spade falls on River I've built pot and personally feel I have better chance of getting paid on River if I had bet turn, as opposed to checking turn and betting River after spade has hit. I'm also trying to fold out A's, and I'm charging lower draws. Also, I'm pot-controlling: while maintaining aggression I'm severely lessening the chances I have to deal with a donk from him on the river, and can pot control it instead. After typing this, I'm DEFINITELY BETTING THE TURN. Especially 150BB deep against this player. DEFINITELY. Also with Villain, he is more inclined to call you light. I'm rethinking betting the turn. Maybe if Villain is incapable of folding an A even on a 3-flush board it is correct to check back, if not probable. But if he's calling you down light, which is also possible given description, with anything QQ or less (I don't know if he 3! or not) A JT one spade type hand, or KJ, KQ, KT, K9 one spade or no; It might be better to bet to pot control river and maximize potential flush value. I'm not sure, it's tough. Would love someone to convince me one way or another hard.

River: As the runout went, if I checked the turn and he checks the river I check the river. If he bets river.... size and read dependent.

If we were HU with Main Villain MamaRolex might actually be correct. But....

He'll also be more inclined to call cause pot is big and he "finds himself in this situation".

HU -- Villain tendency determine bet or check behind flop.

Bold - Underlined: I think is superior to b flop, b turn, to pot control river. Because we are on draw, and can gauge his donk if he does so on River.

--
Plus everything I said on my own and I didn't quote of Rage's and others.

----------------------------------------------


Hypothetically on the flop if we are able to deduce that Main Villain has a pretty low (say less than 15 or even 10%, quite possible) C/R frequency my question becomes what is more EV+ checking the flop or betting the flop. My gut after swallowing and pondering up all this info/discussion is that betting the flop is more EV+. The only real downside I can see is drawing against Ax, or set. When you factor in everything I think betting is more EV+? Idk, it's a bit confusing. The other downside is you don't charge PPs without spade? that seems ridiculously niche. Seems like only downside is you will get called by Ax or set and not hit flush by river. I don't know. 150BB I'm thinking betting flop is better than Checking it behind. It's tough spot. MamaR brought clarity into the room by to me at the time a way of playing it I didn't really consider and then Rage just brought jab after jab of logic why it's correct to bet Flop. I think bet flop? Crying logic.