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QTs on btn, BAD BAD play from me?! QTs on btn, BAD BAD play from me?!

04-08-2017 , 01:22 AM
1/2
Hero had $~500 on btn
BB (huge stack), valued led on the river when he had the nut str on AKT, hero had top 2 couldn't find a fold, paid him off.
Utg is quite loose, always raising straddles trying to steal.

Preflop:
Utg limped, Co limped $2, hero isolated on btn with $8. Bb 3b to $24, utg called. Hero called in position.

Flop ($74), 4sQTh
Bb cbet $35, utg called. Hero raised to $100, bb called, utg called.

Turn ($374), 9c
Checked through...

River, Ks
Bb led out $150, utg & hero folded. Villian shown JJ

Fishy call by vilian with JJ?
How about the raise or sizing on flop by hero? Arguable mandatory 2nd barrel by hero on turn?

Thanks.

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QTs on btn, BAD BAD play from me?! Quote
04-08-2017 , 01:29 AM
You probably can't bet enough to get him to fold the turn once he's open ended.
QTs on btn, BAD BAD play from me?! Quote
04-08-2017 , 01:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5 south
You probably can't bet enough to get him to fold the turn once he's open ended.
I kinda know the call of jj on q high flop was a losing play...yes if I bet $200 on turn, and got leading jam i will be in reluctant spot... also I knew somehow if utg had j8 or jk I also in terrible...

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04-08-2017 , 01:53 AM
When both players called you had the perfect stack size to jam the turn. KJ got there but it doesn't really make sense for the BB to min 3bet you with that hand. If he was going for a resteal he would have had to size much bigger. When he flats the raise on the flop I think it's more likely he has AQ or KK+. Maybe a big combo draw like AKhh. Utg can reasonably have KJ and that sucks if he does but you already described him as being a loose player so he can have a lot of worse hands and flush draws he might look you up with. I like you're raise on the flop tho. I think on such a wet board it would be good to size bigger tho. Between 135 and 150. to answer you're other question V calling with JJ and then showing when everyone folds is pretty fishy. I would be looking to play some pots with him after that value betting pretty thin.

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04-08-2017 , 08:38 AM
Fist pump dump it in the middle on the turn....
We block qq and tt, 44 doesn't 3bet pre flop, neither does kj. Villans are going to have a hard time folding after calling the flop and we are just so unlikely to be behind here....
QTs on btn, BAD BAD play from me?! Quote
04-08-2017 , 09:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronrabbit
Fist pump dump it in the middle on the turn....
We block qq and tt, 44 doesn't 3bet pre flop, neither does kj. Villans are going to have a hard time folding after calling the flop and we are just so unlikely to be behind here....
The only issue I see with this is, we're only getting called when behind. Everything else folds.
QTs on btn, BAD BAD play from me?! Quote
04-08-2017 , 10:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronrabbit
Fist pump dump it in the middle on the turn....
We block qq and tt, 44 doesn't 3bet pre flop, neither does kj. Villans are going to have a hard time folding after calling the flop and we are just so unlikely to be behind here....
I guess v will just call after calling the flop raise. Little stubborn

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04-08-2017 , 11:53 AM
This hand is a disaster.

Preflop: there's no such thing as isolating to $8. That's called sweetening the pot. Calling th 3 bet was at best marginal. QT is usually crushed by a 3 betting range. The only thing that makes it possibly ok is perfect relative and absolute position along with getting ok odds with deeper stacks thanks to UTg fishiness.

Flop: obviously raise but your sizing is comical.

Turn: how you let this check through is beyond me.

River: I hope you had your nuts hooked up to a car battery under the table so you could shock yourself for getting to this spot. Fold is good.
QTs on btn, BAD BAD play from me?! Quote
04-08-2017 , 03:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by spikeraw22
This hand is a disaster.

Preflop: there's no such thing as isolating to $8. That's called sweetening the pot. Calling th 3 bet was at best marginal. QT is usually crushed by a 3 betting range. The only thing that makes it possibly ok is perfect relative and absolute position along with getting ok odds with deeper stacks thanks to UTg fishiness.

Flop: obviously raise but your sizing is comical.

Turn: how you let this check through is beyond me.

River: I hope you had your nuts hooked up to a car battery under the table so you could shock yourself for getting to this spot. Fold is good.

Guy has come here admitting he has played a hand poorly and is asking for help.

Maybe you could do that without being a d ick about it?
QTs on btn, BAD BAD play from me?! Quote
04-08-2017 , 04:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellisdeee
Guy has come here admitting he has played a hand poorly and is asking for help.

Maybe you could do that without being a d ick about it?
I could. But it really wasn't that bad considering it's a forum for poker criticism and maybe OP will take the content to heart because I didn't sugar coat it. OP hasn't said anything about this so maybe you should let him defend himself if he feels he needs to and move on to the next thread. This isn't kindergarten. Ruffled feathers are allowed.
QTs on btn, BAD BAD play from me?! Quote
04-08-2017 , 04:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by spikeraw22

Flop: obviously raise but your sizing is comical.

Turn: how you let this check through is beyond me.

River: I hope you had your nuts hooked up to a car battery under the table so you could shock yourself for getting to this spot. Fold is good.
Flop should be $125+ ?
Turn, if I bet, I couldn't possibly make jj to fold. He called, and then jamming on me. Sickening feeling
River fold was standard, I been playing a lot Omaha online

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04-08-2017 , 04:20 PM
Ya flop should be a lot bigger. Like $125-150. Maybe bigger depending on how much you think he'll call.

The turn really shouldn't scare you so much. Yes it makes a straight for one hand but there's still a ton that pays you off and makes t easier to stack off on good rivers.

River I agree.
QTs on btn, BAD BAD play from me?! Quote
04-08-2017 , 05:57 PM
Not sure how your typical 1/2 plays OP, but when I played 1/2 I'm making it $15 preflop in this spot, my typical open size was $10 + $2 for every limp but this can change depending on dynamics. Either way, 8$ is way too small.

Preflop as played, calling the 3bet is fine if UTG is at least 100+bbs, if UTG is really short stacked I prefer just folding pre to the 3bet, even given the great price and IP.

I like your decision to raise flop, definitelely can get value from KK+, AQ type hands from BB, and TONNES of hands you could get value from UTG. That being said, I don't like your raise size. Make it larger, like $150. This way you can shove turns for < a pot sized bet even if only BB calls your flop raise and get more value overall.

Turn as played is still a bet, given your weird flop size, pot is now like ~$375 and we have ~$375 or a bit more. Just ship it on in there. If UTG has KJ good for him.

River as played is a fold.
QTs on btn, BAD BAD play from me?! Quote
04-08-2017 , 07:53 PM
I really feel like this is a shove on the turn - you need to charge the draws.

For the same reason I think 150ish on the flop - 100 is pretty small.

Raise to $8 pre-flop with 2 limps is way too small.
QTs on btn, BAD BAD play from me?! Quote
04-08-2017 , 09:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellisdeee
The only issue I see with this is, we're only getting called when behind. Everything else folds.
We have less than a pot size bet left over, this is an obvious jam... No point betting 150 leaving us a comical 1/3 pot bet on the river.
QTs on btn, BAD BAD play from me?! Quote
04-08-2017 , 10:36 PM
Iso bigger.

Flop bigger, but it's not too bad, we still set up jam.

Jam turn.
QTs on btn, BAD BAD play from me?! Quote
04-09-2017 , 09:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SillyRabbit
I really feel like this is a shove on the turn - you need to charge the draws.

For the same reason I think 150ish on the flop - 100 is pretty small.

Raise to $8 pre-flop with 2 limps is way too small.
I played omaha a lot online. That's why I was bein very cautious about v made nearly the nuts

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