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QQ vs. Big Flop Reraise QQ vs. Big Flop Reraise

06-02-2018 , 10:39 PM
NWI N/L 1/2
Hero needs to go back to the drawing board and/or get some perspective. Hero has 200 and has just sat down five hands earlier. He wakes up with QQ on the Button
There are four limpers.
Hero raises to $20. This is now Hero's standard raise with limpers. The blinds fold. UTG folds limp. UTG+1 folds limp.
MP is a short stack who's shoved twice in 2 hands out of 5. He is previously unknown to Hero. He has about 70. He calls.
Villain is in the hijack. He has 240 and covers Hero. He's a 35 yo WG who Hero does not know well. Hero has seen him be fairly aggressive in the past. He calls.
Flop $67
239
It is checked to Hero who bets $35.
MP folds. Hijack makes it $105. Hero looks at him. He looks reved up, almost coked up in his seat.
Is this a fold? I try to pick a size (20) to discourage the odds for set mining but neither of us are short stacked. Many guys in 1/2 don't care about odds and always say they can "get your stack" if they hit a set anyway.
Should Hero fold to this reraise? Long term, is folding a losing play for me? Also, after my c-bet, am I "pot committed?" I honestly don't know.
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06-02-2018 , 10:53 PM
The person who would have been your main worry itnitally is the short stack. based on how you described him, he goes all in if he has a decent hand, for him to call your$20 indicates he may not had any premium cards in his hand so 10/9 10/8 9/8 7/8 suited are in his range. if he folded, the possibilities of a set out there is slightly smaller which is a relief but this could be a possible flush draw.

in that case, I would have reraised to put the player all in. you do not want him to see a free card. and you are the favorite since he most likely doesnt have AA or KK.

Putting him all in will cause him to rethinking if his hand is worth it and hopefully it wont risk it and fold
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06-02-2018 , 11:10 PM
Your preflop raise size protects you here. Getting 10-1 implied odds is not good enough for him because of the pots he loses to getting oversetted. You can stack off here and if he turns over a set, whatever.

Let's say he has a set here. The pot will be around 425, you're a little over 10% to win (calculating using all QQ combos) so you'll get back about 46 in equity. So if you put in your stack whenever he flops a set, you'll lose about $155 to him. He's only about 12% to flop a set, so him calling $20 to try to win $155 off you doesn't give him the odds he needs.

None of this is to say that you should never fold to these raises, I frequently do, but you need a better read on the player.
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06-02-2018 , 11:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisV

None of this is to say that you should never fold to these raises, I frequently do, but you need a better read on the player.
I really don't have any read on the guy and seeing the guy all revved up in his seat made me want to told immediately.
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06-03-2018 , 02:30 AM
overall in these spots you will win more often by just going all in and either taking it down or him not drawing out. a few times you see a set or something and you lose.

you seem to over think some of these hands or try to turn the right play around by inferring something from the opponents looks. it doesnt work often.
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06-03-2018 , 03:15 AM
You have to go with your reads, but careful trying to read too much into things. In my experience players looking "revved up" is not very reliable. Some people love gambling and will get excited when money is going in regardless of how good their hand is.

The most reliable tells are strong neck pulse or hand shaking, both of which are involuntary and usually indicate a strong hand. After that comes speech play when you're considering a call, which likewise is usually strong. Those are the only ones I'll apply to unknowns. Aside from that I'll want to have some info on the specific player before trying to interpret anything they do.
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06-03-2018 , 03:54 AM
I do not fold for these stack sizes , he can have alot of hands that you beat, if you guys were both much deeper obviously you would need more reads / information before making decision
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06-03-2018 , 05:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Zee
overall in these spots you will win more often by just going all in and either taking it down or him not drawing out. a few times you see a set or something and you lose.

you seem to over think some of these hands or try to turn the right play around by inferring something from the opponents looks. it doesnt work often.
that's a good point, sometimes being revved up just means they want to gamble.
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06-03-2018 , 05:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adummmmm
I do not fold for these stack sizes , he can have alot of hands that you beat, if you guys were both much deeper obviously you would need more reads / information before making decision
Is a hundred big blinds the cutoff though, if I have 200 it's an easier fold then? It's right about at the point where I hate shoving with 1 pair hands post flop.
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06-03-2018 , 05:41 AM
You got a SPR of approx 3 on the flop and also a blocker to the flush, that's enough to snap and say NH if he shows a set.

Check out SPR (Stack to Pot Ratio) on google or on 2+2 to know your level of commitment to a pot according to your stack.

Hope that helps,
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06-03-2018 , 05:47 AM
This is a simple question: can V raise with a flushdraw? if yes call, if not, fold. V never has 9x here. Its pretty much 2p+ (maybe TT/JJ but dont expect him to limp them) and then either there either are FD/SD or there arent, and that decides the hand.

Against even semi competent Vs you gotta GII here, this is a clear GTO call, but you can exploitatively fold overpairs to raises at 1/2 all day, because a lot of Vs at this stake simply dont raise without at least an overpair here.

Also him going 100 instead of all in leans me even more towards him not bluffing.
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06-03-2018 , 05:55 AM
OK just read two 2+2 threads on it, at one point they were calling it PSR ratio. I read the intro at Poker Bank too.
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06-03-2018 , 05:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomark
This is a simple question: can V raise with a flushdraw? if yes call, if not, fold. V never has 9x here. Its pretty much 2p+ (maybe TT/JJ but dont expect him to limp them) and then either there either are FD/SD or there arent, and that decides the hand.

Against even semi competent Vs you gotta GII here, this is a clear GTO call, but you can exploitatively fold overpairs to raises at 1/2 all day, because a lot of Vs at this stake simply dont raise without at least an overpair here.

Also him going 100 instead of all in leans me even more towards him not bluffing.
That's an excellent post. The shove is actually the weaker play there. Thanks.
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