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QQ Turned into a Triple Barrel Bluff - Fine or Spew? QQ Turned into a Triple Barrel Bluff - Fine or Spew?

03-20-2015 , 05:45 PM
You bet sizes aren't consistent with your read. Nobody is folding Kx on that board for 1/2 pot.

You're also out of position. You should be bluffing rarely on this board when OOP (quiz: which hands in your range have enough equity to bluff profitably?). I'd check the turn and am either calling or folding, depending on sizing.
QQ Turned into a Triple Barrel Bluff - Fine or Spew? Quote
03-20-2015 , 06:00 PM
Results:

Spoiler:
V tanked for like 5 minutes. He then folded his cards literally onto hero's cards (hero was staring down at his cards while V tanked). We agreed to show the cards as it was a friendly game. He folded K9 and said "I knew you had queens".

After I made the river bet, I was really regretting my line though. I got lucky he folded. I was giving him way to good of a price to call. He has to be right less than 1 out of 3 times in order to call the river. I should have either bombed the river or given up sooner.

QQ Turned into a Triple Barrel Bluff - Fine or Spew? Quote
03-20-2015 , 06:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jesse123
$1/2

V - Highly intelligent late 20s white guy. He's got a Master's degree.
Bad Read.
QQ Turned into a Triple Barrel Bluff - Fine or Spew? Quote
03-20-2015 , 07:06 PM
Grunch

Raise size pre is bad. Get more value. You said he likes to defend his button straddle. He will likely defend just as much for $20.

Posting 3 barrel bluffs never go over good on this site. Table dynamics. Game flow are just to hard to describe.

However,

You found a thinking player who probably has a fold button. But I don't like your river sizing.

Think it is probably -ev. But pretty close to thinking player. You arnt repping any missed draws, which helps.

Last edited by mikko; 03-20-2015 at 07:14 PM.
QQ Turned into a Triple Barrel Bluff - Fine or Spew? Quote
03-20-2015 , 07:20 PM
Total spew from flop but I don't blame u.. In real time sometimes we just loose our minds
QQ Turned into a Triple Barrel Bluff - Fine or Spew? Quote
03-20-2015 , 09:09 PM
Grunch;
This is pretty damn spewey.
Trying to get top pairs to fold is dumb, then betting ace on the river will sometimes work I guess but you'll often get the "eff it I have to call now".
QQ Turned into a Triple Barrel Bluff - Fine or Spew? Quote
03-21-2015 , 12:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LolPony
Grunch;
This is pretty damn spewey.
Trying to get top pairs to fold is dumb, then betting ace on the river will sometimes work I guess but you'll often get the "eff it I have to call now".
we shouldnt be expecting the A to push V off the hand. our betting should push him off because he's capped with a weak K range and we're repping (should be) an uncapped range. AA/AK/KK are in our range, not his.

the A changes absolutely nothing in the hand because honestly if we double barreled with something like AQ/AJ, we should be checking back and bluff catching his total air.

it amazes me how people continually say the same tired adage:

"You can't double and triple barrel Vs in LLSNL."

thats a bunch of BS... you can, you just can't barrel every V. V's at these levels have 1 of 2 major leaks.
1) they call too much
2) they fold too much

figure out which Vs are which and act accordingly.
QQ Turned into a Triple Barrel Bluff - Fine or Spew? Quote
03-21-2015 , 03:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebastes Pinneger
Bad Read.
That not a read. It's a fact. V was highly intelligent and had a Master's degree. "Highly intelligent" doesn't describe his poker playing. It describes his mental makeup. Dude was wicked smart. That's undeniable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny_on_the_spot
it amazes me how people continually say the same tired adage:

"You can't double and triple barrel Vs in LLSNL."

thats a bunch of BS... you can, you just can't barrel every V. V's at these levels have 1 of 2 major leaks.
1) they call too much
2) they fold too much

figure out which Vs are which and act accordingly.
Yeah, this is what I'm trying to get back to. A year ago, I was double barreling and triple barreling much more frequently. Part of the reason I made the play in the OP was that before the session, I mentally committed to making at least one double-barrel bluff and at least one squeeze play during the 8 hour session. I might have forced this one a little bit.

I just need to refine it and use it more wisely. The next time I do it, I'm going to make sure that I have position and that I have some chance to improve my hand on a later street (even if it's a backdoor draw).

When I first came on the forum more than a year ago, I remember an experienced poster making a comment that "double-barreling is printing money". I didn't believe it until I started doing it. I stopped doing it because of bankroll concerns. I need to start doing it again though. I just need to pick my spots more wisely than this hand.
QQ Turned into a Triple Barrel Bluff - Fine or Spew? Quote
03-21-2015 , 12:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jesse123

That not a read. It's a fact. V was highly intelligent and had a Master's degree. "Highly intelligent" doesn't describe his poker playing. It describes his mental makeup. Dude was wicked smart. That's undeniable.
I was joking of course, but seriously this hand was poorly played by both parties.

V calling off calling off $70 and then folding to a $65 River Bet getting better than 3:1 is super Fishy.

Don't let the results level you.
QQ Turned into a Triple Barrel Bluff - Fine or Spew? Quote
03-21-2015 , 05:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jesse123
I mentally committed to making at least one double-barrel bluff and at least one squeeze play during the 8 hour session.
This is a fine thing to do for experimental / learning purposes, but I hope you realize that having this kind of premeditated game plan is generally the wrong way to approach the game of poker.

Just adapt and exploit your opponents' weaknesses. That's the game plan.
QQ Turned into a Triple Barrel Bluff - Fine or Spew? Quote
03-21-2015 , 11:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsilver
without even reading OP, double and triple barrel bluffing any game up to and including 2/5 live is unprofitable in almost all circumstances. just call it off unimproved after the first barrel every time. players are generally stations and will sigh call and cry call everything. if you want to be profitable at these games in general, just bet more for value and in thinner spots.
I strongly disagree with this. The villains I play against play tighter on the turn and river than they do on the earlier betting rounds. They try to see cheap flops, and then might call a flop bet to chase something or to see if the player c-betting will follow up with another bet, but when the bets get big on the turn and river and they still don't have much, they tend to fold more.

They are calling stations preflop, but they are not always calling stations after the flop.

Of course, if you are facing a player who is very loose for even the big bets, then cut down on the bluffs, but against a lot of players you can occasionally find spots to double and triple barrel.
QQ Turned into a Triple Barrel Bluff - Fine or Spew? Quote
03-22-2015 , 03:44 AM
your river sizing is horrible if your trying to get a king to fold. Really turn bet/ river bet don't work great together. If your sure he has A K why bet the turn weak, then fake "value bet" river?
QQ Turned into a Triple Barrel Bluff - Fine or Spew? Quote
03-22-2015 , 09:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve00007
I strongly disagree with this. The villains I play against play tighter on the turn and river than they do on the earlier betting rounds. They try to see cheap flops, and then might call a flop bet to chase something or to see if the player c-betting will follow up with another bet, but when the bets get big on the turn and river and they still don't have much, they tend to fold more.

They are calling stations preflop, but they are not always calling stations after the flop.

Of course, if you are facing a player who is very loose for even the big bets, then cut down on the bluffs, but against a lot of players you can occasionally find spots to double and triple barrel.
most llsnl rec players are stations and most decent regs are exceptionally difficult to run a plausible bluff line against - so imo/ime good bluff spots are rare. very rare. far less frequent than most llsnl players believe.

your point about some players, perhaps many, being sticky otf but tighter ott is perfectly reasonable and worth assessing for every opponent at the table. but it's quite a risk and requires a substantial investment. then are we unloading the clip otr? do we have enough info, really, to make this play? how easy is it for opponents to exploit us?

tbh i find it so much easier to accumulate by betting for value over more streets and in thinner spots - forcing myself to b/f rivers that i'd have considered impossible to get value from a couple of years ago, and being routinely amazed by people calling off my top pair T kicker with their mid pair/worse. and i bluff less for the exact same reason.

Last edited by oldsilver; 03-22-2015 at 10:10 AM. Reason: ninja editing sry
QQ Turned into a Triple Barrel Bluff - Fine or Spew? Quote

      
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