V - 50s white guy. Regular who plays a ton of poker. This is the first time I've played with him. Been playing about 4 hours before this hand takes place. Overall, he seems to be a winning TAG though his game has minor holes like raising too small pre-flop. He's been very active from the button and CO. He likes to open a lot of pots from co and button and he'll call pf raises more liberally than most tags, but only from the button. He's fit or fold for the most part when he cold calls raises. He called two of my ep raises on the button previously and had just folded to my c-bet. He's aggressive post flop, but has only flipped over strong winning hands at showdown. He hasn't 3 bet a pot pf yet. Maybe he just hasn't had 3 betting hands or maybe he just likes to flat with them. I'm sure he has observed hero's super tight play pf and watched hero stack a few guys. Hero has been c-betting probably 80% of the time.

Hero is racking up his chips and has two hands left to play when:

Hero ($480) opens to $15 from UTG+2 with QQ
Folds to V ($230) who flats on the button

Flop ($29)
642
Hero bets $20
V min raises
Hero re-raises $100
V goes all-in for $175

Hero tanks. On one hand, I'm getting ridiculous pot odds to call. On the other hand, I can't see myself possibly having the best hand. This is the first hand all day I had 3 bet on the flop. He had to have put me on a big pair after my flop 3 bet. Also, V's behavior changed dramatically. After being focused on the game completely all day, he all of a sudden was interested in other things while I was thinking (television, waitresses, etc). He looked everywhere except at the table.

I put Vs range as JJ, KK, AA, and sets for sure. There's a smaller chance he could have had 2 pair or a straight. 0% chance of a bluff.

In my self analysis, I have two doubts. One is the size of my 3 bet. The other is my planning. I'm not sure I thought enough about what I was going to do if he shoved. It seems maybe I should have bet a smaller amount to give myself some wiggle room if he shoves.

This hand is bugging the living **** out of me. I'd appreciate any feedback.

When he min-raises, what do you think his range is?

Why did you 3bet and what was your plan if he shoved?

His range is way more than 0% bluffs if he knows that you are getting up in two hands. The "don't want to lose my winnings at the end" instinct is very strong, and if he's an aggressive thinking player, he could be bluffing here. I would say about 10% of his range is bluffs.

That said, the three bet is kinda bad if you weren't planning to snap off a shove, and his range gets much stronger when he 4-bet shoves, especially if he's good enough to know that your raise is likely committing. The looking at everything but the game thing is usually a tell of weakness, and you're getting redic odds, so I guess I call, but mostly I hate myself for the three bet.

You've already done a pretty good analysis of the situation yourself.

You should not have 3-bet the flop vs. this opponent. You still need to fold now, because you're right - despite the good pot odds, you don't have enough equity.

Also, your read that he's suddenly paying attention to everything but the game is a very reliable tell that he's very strong here.

Just call the flop min-raise. Then there's ~$100 in the pot and still ~$170 left in stacks. See what he does on the turn. You might decide to check/fold to a sizable bet, or you might decide to call a bet with the plan to check/fold most rivers. Run out and action will give you more information.

You're getting 4.5:1 on the flop min-raise, and of course that's not enough on its own to try to spike a Q, but of course, sometimes you are ahead and he'll check back turn or bet weakly or otherwise make a bet you decide to call, and sometimes you do bink the Q.

So your line here should be: call flop min/raise, then c/c or c/f turn - then if you did c/c turn because you're still not convinced you're beat, c/f most rivers.

As described, fold. In your own words:

<<He's fit or fold for the most part when he cold calls raises>>

He cold called your raise, so you're expecting fit or fold.

<<He called two of my ep raises on the button previously and had just folded to my c-bet>>

He's not folding now, he's raising.

<<He's aggressive post flop, but has only flipped over strong winning hands at showdown.>>

You've never seen him show down a bluff.

<<I'm sure he has observed hero's super tight play pf >>

So he's putting you on a premium hand from your PF raise in EP, but nonetheless he's raised and then 4 bet all-in on the flop.

You say he plays a ton and is a winner, so he knows that the final $75 of his all in is going to offer you great odds, therefore it's a value bet, and not the last gasp of a go for broke bluff.

Fold.

Or, if it's worth $75 to you to answer the burning question as to whether he has a set of 2's, 4's or 6's, then pay to find out which set he has.

Looking at everything but the game is a tell of strength. Villain is feigning weakness and specifically doesn't want hero to feel threatened because villain wants hero to call.

A tell of weakness is the opposite - villain staring intensely at hero, feigning strength, and showing great interest in the hand and the pot.

I thought there was few reasons he could of min raised. I thought the most likely was that he had an overpair and he wanted to see if it might be good. I weighted his ranged heavily towards 77-JJ. I had never seen him in a spot like this, so I wasn't sure.

I 3 bet for value. I thought he was capable of calling down with JJ or TT. I also 3 bet because I didn't want to call down 2 more streets. He was very good at value betting thin. I thought I could fold if he shoved. I think my awareness of his stack was poor. I didn't think ahead far enough. That's something I need to work on.

Well, I think my 3 bet told him that I wasn't concerned with losing my winnings. If I had already stuck in $135, he knew I wasn't protecting my winnings. People who are protecting their winnings don't stick $135 in the pot. He has to think I'm calling $75 more. I know what you mean about racking up players, but I'm certain he wasn't bluffing.

I see what you guys are saying about the 3-bet. So, how would you react to his min raise and what would be your plan for the rest of the hand?

Thanks, man. That's exactly what I was looking for. My gut told me something was wrong with my line, but I couldn't put my finger on it. I need to get out of the habit of assuming that Vs are going to bet the turn and river. You're right, he probably would have checked back the turn with some holdings that he'd min raise with.

I agree with the second, but I've always found that V's who are acting like they don't care what you do generally want a fold. If they are generally distracted and go back to that after the hard work of deciding what to do, I find it to be strength, but if they are usually intense and are now trying to act unconcerned, that has usually been weakness, ime.

Basically I don't see that as a feigning of weakness, but as a feigning of unconcern. Still, different V's are different, and it's hard to tell these things from a typed description.

grunch: call

unless you're super convinced of your read that your beat you have to follow through and put in the last 75. this is a decision that has to be made before your big 100 raise. you shouldn't r/f more than 50% of the effective stack. either get ready to stick it all in or don't make that raise.

why did u reraise to just fold. at this point its an easy called as youve commutted yourself

my play would have been to flat his min raise then c/shove the turn

if coolered: nh and reload

Don't u think he will do this with 88+ thinking u have AK?
Has a general rule min raises always stink of strength. Tbh I would glad flop and see what develops on turn.
Always go with your read if u really think hea got u near fold but with how much u have put in the flop u can't fold tbh. I would call just to see the hand has a constulation for future reads

Yep, that was my error. I needed to decide before the 100 raise what I was going to do if he shoved. I like the 50% number. That sounds right.

Yes, very possible. Min raises often do reek of strength, but sometimes people will do that with hands they're unsure about. They're trying to feel out where they're at and will raise small "for information". Like you said, he might be just feeling out whether or not I was c-betting with an ace. I've seen V's do this with hands like A6 or even pocket 5s or 3s on a board like this.

Obviously, just calling the flop raise was the right play. I did wind up folding to his ai. I think it was the right decision given the way the hand was played, but I never should have put myself in that situation.

When you decide that it's time to go.....leave!! Don't ever rack up your chips and say ok....2 more hands. Personally seen this cost people more money than nearly anything else. If your mind has been set on leaving...listen to yourself.

There was no plan when you 3 bet this particular player post flop. As played, V is showing significant strength and at best you're drawing to 2 outs. There was nothing wrong with your original preflop raise or continuation bet. I don't ever like a min-raise OOP when he's already shown signs of strength. Pretty much guarantees he's not folding and now you don't have any more info than you had previously. You've now realized you're beat though...fold.

I'm confused by the stack size. Villain has $230 to start the hand, calls 15 preflop, but somehow only has 175 on the flop. This discrepancy affects my decision.

I guess maybe you're saying here that Villain raises to 40 and then reraises all-in for 175+40 (=215). Strange way to put it IMO, but at least the stacks make sense now.

Rack your chips immediately after you play your last hand; not a second before. There is no need to telegraph it to everyone.

Against an opponent who fits this description, I suppose the best course of action is to call the min-raise and reevaluate. It's not ideal since you're OOP, but it's a better option than putting in $100 and then folding, which is not a great idea IMO.

Personally I think now your beat although I doubt I'm good enough to fold. There are other hands that he could think are good out there so it would probably come down to a "game time" decision.

On the flop you continue standard and he min raises. You said he sometimes bets too small pre flop could he also be betting small post flop?? This could be key to deciding whether the bet is to induce a raise or a standard "I think I'm good" raise.

If you think your behind fold. If your unsure call and reevaluate.

You initial thought was that your good still and you chose to reraise. The decision though isn't where I think you've made the mistake. I think the size of the reraise is the problem. You've put yourself in a difficult situation. You've raised an amount that gives you a decision should he go all in. Once you've decided your reraising with what's behind your basically committing. The obvious choice is to ship but his stack is just to large to warrant that however should you have made you bet larger the decision is a no brainer.

Personally with £89 in the pot I would have raised that plus the size of his raise which was £40 so about £130. With £45 behind he knows your not folding, you know your not folding and your decision is made. If he's good then you pray.

Look to give your opponent the tough decision rather than leaving room for him to do it to you.

OP you know you had V pre flop as he's on the button and a hand like aa or Kk he 3 bets all day.

The question is does he have you on the flop. My evaluation is you bet and he min raises, only time people are going to min raise is to a) see where they are in the hand or b ) strength.

Once you re raise only time I see him shoving is if he has a set. I don't see him having a straight here only logical play is he called a pocket pair on the button for15. he hit his set min raise once you repop its "pot odds" for you to call and even if you fold the hand its still over a 200 dollar pot he takes down

did you call his all in?

No, I folded.

No, his post flop bet sizing was very good....especially his river value bets. With the additional information from his 3-bet, his min raise obviously fit into the category of extreme strength. It appeared that he had a monster (set) and was just trying to squeeze a few bucks out of me.

Good advice. I will do that from now on. I don't think it affected the play in this hand, but nothing positive can come from racking up early.

Flop ($29)
642
Hero bets $20
V min raises
Hero re-raises $100
V goes all-in for $175

What would be a better way to communicate V's action so that there's no confusion?

I'm used to seeing it this way:

Hero bets 20, V raises to 40, Hero reraises to 100 (or did you make it 120? or 140?), Villain shoves for 215.

Just a matter of personal preference perhaps, but I think people usually post each bet as the total amount rather than an addition to what they've already put in the pot on that street.

I used to announce it by telling the table that I'm playing one more round or X more hands. This was mostly out of courtesy, in the event that I won a big hand. I didn't want to give people the impression that I am a hit-and-run artist, because I know that is frowned upon. I don't like it either when someone wins a big pot and then bounces.

However, I've come to the realization that it really doesn't matter what the other players think. As you stated, OP, racking up your chips in advance brings new dynamics to the game. Is he bluffing me because he knows I don't want to give back my winnings right before I leave? Will I get paid off, or will the fact that I'm leaving give people the impression that I'm only putting more chips in the pot with a monster?

I think it's best to just leave these variables out of the game. You don't owe an explanation to anyone. Play your last hand, rack your chips, politely say goodbye, and hit the road.

Between his his flop min-raise, 4-bet shove into a guy who's seemingly committed, and dramatic change in behavior, he has a set here very nearly 100% of the time imo. Fold as played.

Like others have said, 3-betting the flop without having a plan for what to do if he shoves is not good. I would call the min-raise, then bink a queen OTT. That or check/evaluate.