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QQ 245 flop

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09-09-2020 , 10:28 AM

DumbosTrunk

Verified Coach PLO5

Join Date: Apr 2017 Posts: 7,309

Hi all,

2/5 with no reads on Vs—unknowns, assume rec players. Both young, one min bought one bought in $500.

Hero recently won a good 3! pot with AQ. Hero opens QQ $35 in CO with straddle on, SB ($350) calls, straddle ($500) defends. Hero covers.

Flop ($98): 245r. SB X, straddle donks $40, hero flats, SB CRAI $320, V2 calls. Hero?

Thanks,
DT

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09-09-2020 , 11:30 AM

sixsevenoff

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 5,411

I would go $40-$45 pre.

I would raise the flop to $120. In my experience, most players aren't donking their sets or straights here, and it's very commonly an overpair and/or pair + SD. Most players can't get away from these hands, and I want to get money in the pot now before turn cards that can kill our hand or action come.

As played, I would just shove. We'll run into a SB set or straight occasionally, but I think there's enough worse overpairs and/or pairs + straight draws to make this a profitable call.

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09-09-2020 , 11:57 AM

venice10

Referee

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 25,855

x/rai is super strong. Recs don't put in stacks with draws on the flop often. I'd fold and see what they had.

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09-09-2020 , 12:14 PM

sixsevenoff

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 5,411

Quote:

Originally Posted by venice10

x/rai is super strong. Recs don't put in stacks with draws on the flop often. I'd fold and see what they had.

I've seen enough overplays in these spots to call

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09-09-2020 , 12:15 PM

Petrucci

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2017 Posts: 6,198

I am folding here as a default unless i have spesific reads-,as i simply cant see us being good often enough against two players with this sort of flop action.

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09-09-2020 , 03:14 PM

samo

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 4,251

Agree on folding vs 2 opponents.

If the straddle was stationy, I might raise small at some frequency, hoping to get value from a smaller pair.

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09-09-2020 , 04:26 PM

Koko the munkey

veteran

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 3,384

No reads other than "they're young"? How comfortable are they at the table? How long did it take them to act? There are a lot of data points you are able to gather at the table even in the course of one hand. You either have to get better at noticing them or get better at sharing them with us.

Absent any useful information, this is probably a fold for me. Rec players generally don't get stacks in light, but then again they might think TT or JJ is strong here.

I would usually fold here or try to get a read on one of the players somehow.

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09-10-2020 , 12:51 AM

jdr0317

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 8,231

Puke. This is one of those spots where I think against our individual opponents we are doing okay, but the parlay is really bad. If I want to be incredibly optimistic and include such stuff as 77 and 33 and A5s at 100% frequency in both of their ranges, I can drag QQ to 32% equity here. But realistically, we have $425 more ($145 behind if we call) in a pot that would ultimately be around $1350.

Generally if a decision is close, I tend to fold against bad players and call against good ones, since bad players are way more likely to give EV away later on to make up for a potential, like 2-3 bb mistake in folding.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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09-11-2020 , 10:08 AM

RoadtoPro

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2019 Posts: 6,600

I saw results in your thread, but I think calling the donk and folding to this ensuing action is fine honestly. SB will have 22s, 44s, 55s, A3s here a lot live, despite the fact that they should have none of that. Straddle could have a lot of overplays, but also more value combos as well.

I can see this being a profitable call because you don't have to have too much equity here 3-ways, but it's marginal at best.

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09-11-2020 , 07:00 PM

#10

valiantcalls

journeyman

Join Date: Dec 2016 Posts: 236

Quote:

Originally Posted by DumbosTrunk

Yea I would just fold, both V's have all the baby sets in their range along with A3s, I don't imagine either V is CRAI/flatting with overpairs to the board under QQ, and if they are then it's probably only like 18 combos of 99-JJ, could even be slow played AA/KK on either side. Too much heat for just a pair.

Last edited by valiantcalls; 09-11-2020 at 07:05 PM.

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09-12-2020 , 08:24 PM

#11

TB27

journeyman

Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 215

Hard to beat 2 players here. Wait for a better spot to get it in. You’ll get a lot of info on this hand when me or both have to show, but virtually readless this has to be a fold. If they show up with really weak hands you’ll get your $75 invested in this hand back soon. It’ll be much harder to get 300-500 back from strong players who got you in when you’re behind.

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09-20-2020 , 08:01 AM

#12

javi

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 8,233

No way I'm folding to a minbuyer who jams a flop like this, nor the donkbettor who is just trying top "see where he's at". Pretty ez call actually at this stack depth. They've both clearly demonstrated that they are bad players and bad players dont make logical decisions or put you on a range of hands or anything at all, they just go with their gut.

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