Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaritia
People seem to think there is something wrong with raise/folding a value hand...mostly bc of literature baluga wrote a decade ago (which was very good), but there's nothing wrong with it if when you raise you get called by worse and jammed on by exactly AA (which is the only 5 bet hand you will see in live poker)
I agree with this. That's why I felt like flatting QQ pre-flop in this case was turning it into a set mine, barring a great flop like 3/3/4 rainbow. I think the OP had enough players in this hand, and enough money behind on those players (particularly the villian), in which QQ set mining was still profitable anyway. Would I do it? Probably not, because I like to run passive players over, but not everyone plays the same style I do. I can defend not 4betting here sometimes though, because if this V never 3bets (rarely do I see a lot of passive Vs 3bet JJ either by the way, it's usually AA/KK/AKs), then you might actually be blowing yourself off of your set-mining equity here by 4betting as well. So while I lean towards a 4bet, I think I'd have to feel comfortable that V's 3bet isn't polarized to AA/KK here.
I've rarely seen a 4bet that wasn't KK/AA, and I've definitely never seen a 5bet that wasn't KK/AA. I think anyone who says 4b/f is bad isn't playing enough live 1/2 or 1/3. Most of the players at 1/2 and 1/3 are there because it's the limit for their bankroll (and often it's still too high for their bankroll). Hell, even in 2/5 I don't think I've ever seen a 5b that wasn't AA or KK.
I've 3b/f QQ twice in the last 12 months and was right both times. It's definitely completely villain dependent but these were both super tight nits that NEVER 3b, much less 4b. To call I'd basically have to see these villains 4-betting anything other than AA or KK at least 20% of the time and that's not even remotely close to the case in live lowest-limit NL. I can only recall 1 time in the last few years in which a 4b wasn't AA or KK (in a cash game, not a tournament) and it was AKs.
Last edited by HawkesDave; 10-10-2017 at 03:53 PM.