1/2

Villains are all loose and passive.
Scared folding to large bets for the most part.
Stacks from $100 - $ 250.

Hero: covers. Agro for the first hour, but ive been very quite for the past 45 minutes to an hour.

Hand:
4 limps
Hero checks QJs in the BB

Flop ($9) Q54r
SB checks
Hero bets $7
3 callers

Turn ($33) Kx
Hero?

My hand hand hasnt really changed at all as KQ was ahead anyway. But I feel like it might scare people with a weak Queen/A5/A4 because zomg an overcard.
Obv 76/32 is peeling regardless I would think.

Is checking here just too FPS?

Please explain the concept of "checking for value." I don't think I get it.

Are villains ever limping a hand like AQ at this table? Sounds weird but I've seen that happen a lot at 1/2. Or even AK. That may be a little bit MUBSY way of thinking, but passive gonna passive, right?

Are V's ever "floating" without knowing why, with any Kx broadways like KJ?

I just go $10 OTF to get more value from fewer callers; $7 makes it way to easy to get into this spot where you're OOP versus 3 V's with somewhat undefined ranges and betting any reasonable amount starts to grow the pot too much for your hand.

check turn

Im checking to get more value later.

Or that's what Im thinking about doing.

If I bet now I think they fold Q9-Q6 but they would be more likely to call on a river blankish card.

Check is standard. They may bet random pp hands ir 76s 5x otr or c/c 60 pct pot etc.

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Gotcha, I like your plan. If they're playing all those weak Qx's you should be able to get some decent value on the river using a "pot control" line.

if this is your read, then checking seems right b/c you don't have a value bet or a bluff. in the 1/2 games im used to playing, i think i get calls from Q9-Q6 as well as AJ, AT, JT, TT, 99, QT, 76, A5, A4

It really depends on the other players. There are plenty of players that will call the flop and pick up a gut shot and call. As well as players with pocket pairs. If the turn brought a flush draw you can get value from that. I don't think this is a check all the time.

If the Vs aren't ever betting scare cards then I check and value bet otr. They'll see we don't like the K but they won't use it to bet ott and get us to fold, they'll get to the river, say to themselves "He doesn't have a K" and call our river bet without thinking that we can have them beat without having a K.

Though we might lose value from weak queens by betting, the check loses us value against all draws, 4s, 5s, and other random nonsense. If it was heads up vs a weak player I might check but vs 3 opponents I'd bet.

Bet 10 on flop, forget 7. That was a lot of callers, if we check are we folding or calling? I'd rather bet 20, then decide on the river

Is 4x or 5x calling 3 streets? No, so as long as we can only get 2 streets max. from them, might as well feign weakness on the K turn to make it more likely that they call otr. Also, the flop was rainbow, so not many draws out there. Some wheel combos, nothing else.

I don't think we get 2 streets vs those hands, so Im just worried about giving the free card 4 ways.

At a loose and passive table like this in prob gonna pump it up pf and then make them pay post... I think limping is pretty nitty here...

Checking option not limping.

Even worse actually.. U prob even have the best hand here most of the time

I don't really agree. Shallow stacks and OOP vs a loose table you're really going to raise QJ here?

Bad Idea Jeans IMO.

You just end up bloating the pot with a weak hand OOP and less post-flop maneuverability.

What im really trying to say is tht if the table is scared money you should be abusing them more not playing into their strengths

When i play 1/2 at a casino (which is rare these days) abuse is actually very profitable bc they cannot react to it...

In a deep aggressive game i may very well ck my option but prob not at this game.

Also i dont expect any agreement just want to throw it out there for someone to stumble upon

These two things work against each other, don't they? I favor the "small hand, small pot" rule here. Yes we'll let someone catch up occasionally, that's ok b/c we're going to keep the pot small, and fold if someone looks like they want to pump it up.

I don't think they are contradictory. We want hands with 10% equity that will not pay off unimproved on the river to fold. Betting 20 will not blow the pot up too much in my opinion. One thing I don't like about this line is I feel like I will be check / folding the river a lot, but vs players like this getting bluffed isn't a huge concern IMO.

I was going to say something similar to what mtagliaf said.

Betting ott to keep 4x and 5x from hitting 2pair/trips otr means we're turning our hand, which is likely best right now, into a bluff in a small pot. It just doesn't make a lot of sense.

Betting $5 would be better than betting big enough to fold out 4x/5x. You could bet the min. that gives 4x or 5x the wrong price to draw to trips/2pair, they each have 5 outs, whatever the bet amount comes to bet that. But that means we're not giving them IO so we would plan to check the river and get to showdown. So the turn is our last street of value. I'd rather check here and b/f otr where the Vs are going to make crying calls with 0% to win the hand most of the time.

Pretty much this, and raising pre is terrible for reasons already stated in this thread. Even a fish with Q3 or 66 will realize his hand is no good if you bet this turn.

Yeah I don't like a check here but I understand your thinking. If it was a monster pot I would consider checking the turn for value but with the pot being so small I'd rather bloat it a little more with a thin value bet right now.