2/5, Bellagio, 7 handed 500 effective, utg+1 covers and opens 20 (middle age asian man, has been seen opening A10o and KJ off from early position opens to 20, folds to hero in sb QJdd, (BB is young pro and covers), I felt as if this is a squeeze/fold with BB still left based on player type, hero 3b! to 80,
bb folds, utg+1 calls,

Flop Jc9c5d (165)
hero 130, utg+1 calls,

Turn 10s (425)
hero shoves ~300 effective, is this a reasonable play/line, thank you

I think it's reasonable depending on your image to Villain, how many times you've 3bet, what cards you've been playing, how gambly he is and you are, etc.

It's definitely a gamble, though, because he's rarely fold a pair of Js or better and he could have a better draw. I'd have to run it, but too lazy.

Defo villain dependent and some of our equity has got to be fold equity here (note the two marginal hands you mentioned you saw him raise with are still ahead of us), so I need evidence that v1 will fold EP opens to 3-bets, before I even consider this.

I also think that the S/P ratio if we get called is not big enough for a big enough payoff.

Imagine a flop Q74r. x/c 100, but you're hardly feeling great. Turn 2, completing a rainbow, villain shoves. You're probably folding.

That's a pretty wet board that hits V's range more than the 3Bettor. I realize one school of thought is to bet bigger on wet boards, but the structure of this game with only a 100BB buyin and your bets so far means you've invested 40% of your stack by the flop.

Several posters that are familiar with solvers have mentioned that solvers use smaller bets on the flop into wet boards. In this case, I would have bet smaller on the flop for more flexibility. Even 3x rather than 4x pre might have been preferred with a 100BB structure. AP, I would shove the turn.

Thank you so far, forgot to mention that I got into the game, card dead the first 3 orbits for about half an hour, even decided not to open 89o on the button when folded to me, I agree with all of the points above of flopping top pair, meh kicker and being stuck OOP,

I was wondering...
is folding pre still the better option here?
is flatting from the sb even with the bb pro ever a decent option? (saw the bb texting his friend a hand history about how he scooped an all in pot and dusted in some tourney)

Has the BB been 3betting often, do you know what hands he's 3bet/squeezed before? Another important question is do you know if the original raiser calls or folds to 3bets pre? If he's opening any broadway from any position, those types of players usually don't fold to 3bets plus you're only 100 bb's deep. If you 3bet and get a caller or two, it makes it a c/f otf or else you're stack gets pretty much committed. I wouldn't even wanna 3bet this shallow then find ourselves OOP with queen high and no equity otf (not even an over card). Calling is fine especially if you think the BB will call with most of his range, but folding is fine as well.

As played, once you bet so much otf and he calls, jamming 300 into 425 ott is definitely reasonable since you turned a lot of equity with an OESD and top pair. And dam you must have good eyes to read his texts I guess sometimes it pays to be nosey.

Pre is 100% standard. I only fold with reads that the opener is nitty. Post seems spewy to me. Flop sizing is just too big. Betting small could be good but I prefer checking. Seems like a lot of low equity hands that could float a small sizing or improve to a worse hand will just fold to a big sizing. You might even get stuff like TT to start folding sometimes when you size this large. Villain can still have 99, JJ-KK, AJs, KJs, 55 all in his range so you shouldn't really be stoked about getting all the money in.

Turn just seems like you're bluffing but this hand seems like a good check/call candidate to me.

I would like the 3bet more if you were deeper. There is nothing wrong with calling and hoping BB comes along even if he is a good player since QJs plays better multiway. You have to realize that this hand looks really sexy but is still likely to be massively dominated against an EP open. I don't mind a fold either due to only being 100bb deep and being oop.

You hit your flop and you still don't feel good about it. I dont mind the cbet but its an awkward spot we are in because of a preflop decision. I do like a slightly smaller flop bet so we can be closer to a PSB for the next street which is what you would have done if you had an overpair which is what we are claiming here.

The turn really seals your fate, I dont mind the shove even though I think were getting called a lot but you can still get KJ and AJ to fold. If Im not x/folding I rather bet it myself. A questionable preflop play really tied your hands here.

I'm really not a fan of the 3! Seems very thin at best.

Post is less interesting but i think we prefer smaller on flop. Even flop check is quite decent option.

Those of you advocating a flop check, is it check/call (reasonable bet) or check/fold?

Knowing H is probably seen as tight, I like the play more. Smaller on flop would have been OK, but I doubt we would have gone much smaller with AA/KK/QQ?

100bb seems a bit shallow imo to add QJs into our 3b range OOP, especially when the the open is coming from ep. Sure villain has shown some less than optimal holdings (ATo/KJ) in previous hands opened from EP, but I dont think we have the correct effective stacks nor do we have the best blockers. If bb squeezes, we have an easy fold and we move on with life.

AP, I think flop sizing is a bit large, I'd go smaller and keep SPR bigger.

On the turn shove seems fine according to how we got there. We're blocking QQ/KQ, set of JJ, TT would be a little hard to find from v but not impossible. The rest of v range should be AA/KK, and good Jx (AJ, KJ) which we have good equity against.

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I think all the options are fine pre but personally I like to call most often in this spot. It's live poker we don't need to worry too much about being unexploitable and even if bb 3bets a lot he shouldn't be squeezing from this position very often

As played I'm checking the flop or betting 1/3 pot. Mostly checking.

I honestly have no idea what to do on the turn as played. I don't think we ever get called by worse but we have equity when called most of the time. V might fold AJ or KJ but he called a 75% pot flop bet in a 3bet pot so he is strong.

I guess I'm shoving turn but this is not a good situation that you got yourself in to

130 into 165 is massive OTF. I honestly think it’s a huge mistake. You’re committing yourself to either stacking off with top pair marginal kicker OTT against what is certainly a strong range once he calls the flop, or you’re check folding turn to a jam on a blank (which is necessary given Vs range, but feels absolutely terrible given the SPR). It’s important to leave yourself options with your sizings and 130 hamstrings you way too much.


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Nothing wrong indeed, apart from minor details like playing a capped range in absolute worst position in a multiway pot. But that is just a tiny little speedbump that a good player ought to be able to overcome, right? Just because it's hard to realize equity out of position doesn't mean it's impossible to realize equity out of position, does it?

(As was said about AJs in another thread: Playing QJs as part of an uncapped range has more EV than playing QJs as part of a capped range.)

QJs is a fine candidate for a SB three-bet versus a LJ open. It shows up as such in a number of published ranges for cash games.

Agreed. We don't really need to bet more than 1/3 pot here with any part of our range.