Hi all,

V1: very loose middle aged guy. Playing over 50% of his hands. Mostly passively, however, applying pressure at times. He covers

V2: younger kid. Playing tight for the most part. Saw him showdown a bluff with a missed straight draw tho

H: playing the tightest trying to play a lot of hands against V1 I only have like 250 to start and v 2 has about the same

OTTH: V1 raises UTG to 9 I call with Qc Jc in the HJ , button calls, V 2 calls in the SB

(40) Flop Qh 3h 5s

V2 leads for 16 V1 folds I call button folds

(72) Turn 9c he bets 16 we call

River Ad he bets 16

His small sizing on each street seems like a small to mid pocket pair trying to get to showdown cheap. Could also be a heart flush draw. Seems like you only lose to KQ and random AhXh.

Obvious call on river. He won't call a raise with any worse and you can't really fold out any better hands. Pot odds are too good to fold without a strong read.

If you wanted to raise the point to raise would be the turn. On the flop you can't be confident of having the best hand when villain bets into 2 opponents. On the turn when he same bets the most likely hand is a draw.

Raise the turn. He’s not betting a worse hand than QJ there.

If I had any hand worse than QJ I would raise the river. When a guy makes the same bet like this his hand is almost always weak. Theres just not much reason to raise the river here because the only hand you will fold out that beats you is KQ. If I had something like 64s or Th9h / JhTh or other hands that I got to the river with, Id raise for sure. A raise to $80 will take this down almost every time.

PS..I would raise the turn with Th9h or JhTh most of the time after he made that weak turn bet. That was just an example of a hand I could get to the river with that probably doesnt beat him.

+1 raising the turn here, folding to a shove.

You’re all nuts. Call flop call turn call riv

Huh? You mean he's not betting a better hand than QJ?

If you didn't typo, it makes little sense to turn our hand into a bluff when you've narrowed his range to at least a strong top pair, and we block the bottom of his range which we hope for him to fold.

Typo. Raising for value or equity protection.

It's nitty but being in the HJ I might just fold preflop even for this price against a loose opener. I wouldn't hate a call on the Button for this cheap, but not having position guaranteed and being caught between the raiser and others postflop can be meh. I don't think calling is horrible by any means but it is by no means a slam dunk either.

For this price I don't hate calling the flop and seeing what he does on the turn.

Ditto thinking for the turn, especially against someone who has shown a bluff. I'm cool with just getting to showdown for cheap here even though we do risk giving opponent decent odds to chase a draw (but he's not always on a draw and even if he is he's rarely going to hit it).

I think for this price I'm cool with considering a river call even though it's definitely a sucky card (even the A high flush draw got there) plus you'd think he'd bet more if he was bluffing to have some FE.

Git'sok,imoG

this. snap call river all day for that price.

probably want to raise the turn and just take down the money right there. make the turn 50 and then C/C river

I initially was fine just calling down and against the turn raise as people were suggesting. But considering it more closely there can be lots of heart draws, pocket pairs and some weaker queens we can get value from on the turn, and protect our equity.

KQ and AQ bet bigger on the turn 100% of the time, draws can be setting their price with this bet and smaller PP's just hoping to get to showdown cheaply. i like $40-$45.

The thing I was kind of hesitant about was that he could have the Ah here at some frequency. But for the prince I called .

He had KhQd

ok make that 95% of the time..

Pretty awful bet size by Villain here...

Haha I know right such a weird line.

I definitely didn’t think that and he said if I shoved he was never folding lol.

I think Ah is more likely

People say that crap all the time to try to keep you from putting them in a tough spot. If you raised the river to $80ish, he would fold quickly.

As I said, I wouldnt do it this time because the only hand he will have that beats you that he will fold to a big raise is KQ. If you had weaker Qx hands or middle pair type hands Id raise every time.

Thanks Mike! I agree I think my hand has too much showdown value. The bottom part of my range I definitely could consider turning into bluffs. Especially hands without a heart. Q10 might be so so.

It’s definitely good I don’t have hearts here as well

definitely raise the turn, i like a smallish raise for value and protection, as played probably just call but raising as a bluff is very interesting, he should not have an ace here ever and you should have some in your range

His "awful" bet sizing got us to call 4 streets with a worse hand that was just second pair by the river.

Gitmightnotbeashorribleasyouthink,imoG

4000 hours in and you still don't know what results oriented thinking is?

In situations where you aren't committed, small bet sizing can be on overall pretty good sizing. Sure, we give draws the correct odds (but the chances of our opponent being on a draw plus getting there are slim), but in the meantime we lose less when behind plus get a pretty good return against opponents who are able to fold TP/etc. to big bets.

GcluelessbetsizingnoobG

It’s awful because it gives opponents correct odds to draw and your begging to be outdrawn AND your missing massive value from worse hands.
It’s not like villain extracted extra from us with this bet sizing. In fact he missed out of at least 8-10bb on the turn here and if we’re talking 5bb an hour being a solid win rate it’s a massive miss

This is a 360 windmill through the legs slam dunk CALL preflop all day everyday. Folding is beyond nitty. It's straight bad. This is one of the very best hands to go multiway to a flop with. $9 is a tiny raise. For all intents and purposes the HJ is in position. If you are folding QJs you are playing WAY too tight to be crushing these horrible players at LLSNL.

Completely agree. Never ever folding pre here lol

raising turn is beyond spew vs tight kid leading twice from sb.