Hi all,

2/5. Talkative MAWG/V sits down and buys the button. Playing $500. Seems like he wants everyone to think he is in a gambling mood. I'm not buying it though. Hero is eff with $450.

A few hands into his session he makes it $20 in HJ. Hero BTN calls A9cc. (Should this be a 3!?)

Heads up. Pot $40.

Flop: Qs-2-6r. Check, check.

Turn: 9s. V bets $35. Hero calls. Pot $110.

River: 3d. V bets $55. Hero?

Thanks,
DT

Not really awkward. Call, expect to lose to TT/JJ/QQ often

snapcall. you are beating a decent portion of his valuebets.

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It depends on your perception of his opening range, whether you should 3! pre.


I would call river getting good price and having decent showdown value, unless he's some type of uber nit who never bluffs

I think it's awkward. While his value range is small, it's hard to come up with hands we beat. Basically all 9s cbet this flop. He's not going to play a bluff like this. So what is it that we're hoping to see when we call? It's obviously very exploitative and open to being counter-exploited but I think I want to fold. Edit: I guess he bet turn pretty large and could have a draw or something but the halfpot bet OTR is kind of odd.

And yeah, I would typically 3bet pre here.

People do dumb things, who knows? V can be betting all sorts of crap in this spot. Can't fold for $55.

fold pre with 90 bb's (not really enough ammo to 3bet), fold the river he probably has AQ trying to get your lower queen to call.

Folding pre is reasonable. I sort of like raising river out of nowhere to like $250. Nobody ever bluffs here so that means it's a great idea

grunch

preflop should definitely be a 3-bet to isolate here, imo. I don't think you should really have a flatting range here. Should raise to $50.

As played... I think this is a good hand to call with. You don't have any spades and you don't block JT.

How should we not have a flatting range here HJ vs BTN? If we are 3betting our speculative hands here 100% of the time then we're spewing like crazy.

Grunch

As first caller I prefer to 3bet or fold AXs below ATs, maybe even below AJs. Depends on stack depths though and villain tendencies. When I have no read I'm more inclined to 3bet/fold because I don't feel I know how to exploit postflop whereas I feel most V's fold too much to 3bets either preflop or to the flop cbet. So 3bet/cbet with AXs is probably profitable in a vacuum.

Postflop as a call pre and given no reads on new villain I think I assume he's reasonably competent at 2/5 and if it looks like a standard line I'll assume it's a standard line.

So X/B/B looks like moderate top pair: QJ QTs or QXs that makes 2-pair on turn or river.

That said it's a good dry board to cbet-bluff so some aggressive villains will have almost no checking range on this flop. I'm not sure how that changes things when an unknown takes a x/b/b line? Probably mostly just indicates he's not super aggro and doesn't have a 100% cbet range even on dry boards?? If anything it makes it more likely he has QX+ here and your 2nd pair top kicker is no good.

Hopefully we check back some QX/TT and even sets on this dry flop so A9 shouldn't be the top of our range here so I think I'm pretty happy folding river except...

...when turn brings straight draws and FDs.

It's much more difficult to just fold against an unknown than if turn was a non-flushing 9. Still, wouldn't an aggro villain cbet the dry flop with most of his BDFDs and BD straight draws?

River bet is 55 into 110 giving 3 to 1 so we need to be good 1/4 the time. If V had tripple barreled I'd put more busted draws in his range than when he goes x/b/b. I suppose he could also be betting a few hands we're beating like K9s or T9s.

Sigh, it's a more difficult spot than it looks. Although my instinct is to just fold river I'm sorely tempted to look him up.

1) he can be bluffing
2) he can be betting worse
3) we only need to be right 25%
4) he's unknown and this showdown could give us valuable information.

Fckuk it, I call...

For me it's about stack depths and reads.

Against loose and bad villains I like to use a strong merged 3bet range and basically not flat at all with middling stack sizes like this.

Alternatively against loose openers who can fold to 3bets or call and then fold postflop too often I like to 3bet polarised (KK+ AK abd some or all of A9s-A2s) and flat a strong range like QQ-66 BWs and some SC.

Deeper stacked (150bb+) I'd start 3betting a much wider range and maybe flatting some weaker speculative hands. But generally I'm trying to get away from flatting raises as the first caller.

That is a pretty good flop to check with his entire range OTF. My guess is he has a big hand (AA/KK or maybe QQ) and realized that he wasn't going to get three streets so he decided to check the flop because he wasn't scared of anything.

I think the call on the turn is fine as we are basically protecting against AK/AJ/AT/KJ/KT bluffing us out so we decide to play "5th street chicken". River bet changes that as V has to put you on at least a 9, so he thinks you will call especially given his sizing which to me looks valuey (you are getting 3-1).

I fold.

We shouldn't be playing that many speculative hands except as 3-bet isos, imo. We're not getting multiway action so it's not that great to flat like 76s or 44 or something. Our opponent has a wider range so our implied odds postflop are not as great. Bluff value goes up. Much better to make sure our range is not capped here than it is to avoid getting 4-bet pre.

I can get behind having two ranges as long as we flat sometimes with AA, but still think that's better against an EP or MP opener than an LP one.

Good points as usual.

What about the situation where you're a bit deeper and opener has some really exploitable leaks postflop?

E.g. they're fit-fold so you know they're checking range is super-weak and unbalanced on flop (or turn if they have high cbet% but don't double barrel in a balanced fashion).

Are you preferring to flat them wider to exploit but keep 3betting too?

Or would you flat wider to exploit but also stop 3betting as often to keep your flatting range uncapped?

Obviously it depends, but just generally...

Something I've realized recently is that, imo, the worst amount of players to be in a hand with (including ourselves) is 3-4. It's relatively easy to play hands that are heads up and hands that are 5+ handed, but hands that are 3-4 handed are more difficult because there are enough people that someone probably hit the flop but not enough people that someone probably has hit a strong hand. Bluffing is more dubious 3-4 handed but is sometimes correct but it's harder to identify.

So I think taking actions to avoid 3-4 players is a good idea. This tends to lead to the philosophy of 3-betting an opener to isolate him rather than flatting and inviting the button or blinds to see the flop. But if we can expect a 5+ handed flop (due to limpers and a small raise sizing) then flatting can make sense.

I suppose, given this, that we can be more liberal in our flatting range when the blinds/button are tighter. But maybe we can take into account the openers tendencies too, although that doesn't prevent others from coming into the pot and making it more tough to play.

If the 9 on the turn completed the rainbow, I wanna fold the river. Now, I still lean slightly towards folding because I would expect him to cbet all his backdoor spade draws on the flop. In game I probably sigh call, though.

Results:

Hero wasn't liking the situation but because 9 put bdfd and that bricked otr, hero called. V showed QT. :/

Very good point, I have tried to implement these concept into my games recently. Seem getting very good result.


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That's an interesting point. I've never consciously considered it like that before but looking back you're quite right. The > 4-way pots force everyone to be pretty honest, HU you know there are plenty of bluffs and plenty opportunity to bluff.

By comparison 3/4-way is a frustratingly opaque.

Going to try to avoid when I can in future. Thanks.