1-2 Live NL, all stacks $300 at a table that just opened up. (Adding, after two replies, that all players are unknown to me)

Lets assume that i have a flush draw on the flop. I have 19.1% to hit my flush on the turn. The pot is $40 and I’m OOP (sb).

Four way on flop: Me: Ah,Th (sb), bb, mid, and button as the pf opener for $10.

Flop: Kh, 8h, 7d

Found call/fold chart here:
http://www.thepokerbank.com/tools/od...ts/percentage/

- facing $8 bet in to a $40 pot = 14% = CALL
- facing $10 bet in to a $40 pot = 17% = CALL
- facing $12 bet in to a $40 pot = 19% = CALL
- facing $14 bet in to a $40 pot = 20% = FOLD
- facing $16 bet in to a $40 pot = 22% = FOLD

Checks to button and he bets $14 and I should fold? WTF?

What if I was third to act and two players fold to the $14 bet and it’s now heads up. Fold to $14?

What am I missing here? This seems real world unrealistic for the games I play in.

It wouldn’t be unusual for the button to bet $25 with Td,Ad (or worse) where I play.

Third to act after two folds and I might consider raising to $65 if I'd had any history of button abuse.

But what do I know? I'm new at this game.

Any thoughts from the live game players?

It would be correct to fold if:
1. You know button has exactly AA/KK/AK and you are only drawing to the flush.
2. You know button will not put any more into the pot when the flush hits.
3. You know button will always bet non-flush turn cards, giving you incorrect odds to call.

Typically we wont be able to definitively say that all of these will happen. We may have some fold equity if a straight connecting card comes OTT. We may get to see a free river, giving us better odds to draw. We may be ahead of broadway hands that missed but are C-betting. V may stack off when we hit the flush, giving us better implied odds.

Knowing the math is important, but we need to fit that into the larger picture and then adjust accordingly.

Those recommendations seem to be based on the assumptions that the your opponent won't put more money into the pot after you hit your flush, that you will never get to the river if you don't hit your flush on the turn and that hitting your ace of 10 won't ever be good enough. These are not good assumptions and so the chart seems pretty much worthless.

The 19.1% number is obviously a useful starting point though.

Edit: I'm very slow.

Look up "Implied Odds"

Also this should be in beginners forum

You're not missing anything. Lots of people lose tons of money chasing draws in heads-up pots so make large bets if you have a made hand. Tend to fold hands where you're most likely outcome is you chasing some draw.

The problem is NEVER with the math.

The reverse is true as well of course.

Calling is based on the assumption that your ace or ten are often good, that the turn will often get checked through, and that the Villain won't see the obvious flush when it hits.

First off: You say your location is Paradise & I believe it! Because it is rare [I cannot recall the last time] that 4 players started out with $300.00 in a new 1/2 game.

I'm a tight player who doesn't believe in chasing draws OOP & the SB is the pits to be playing from. I consider ATo in the top range of a "rag ace." ATs gives us a little more equity in LP but look what we've got here OOP, having called $10 PF from a MP player who open/raised.

We may catch our flush on the turn, or, we may catch a 9 for a weak str8 draw.......

Since we called PF, I guess we have to play our flush draw.... I bet into my opponents. That way, if the heart comes on the turn, they may not put me on it & call me. Maybe someone has a smaller flush. A lotta' maybe's........

If MP player has < pocket Ks, he may just call. If I get raised, I call based upon how much it was raised.

I always fold PF in this situation. Especially not knowing the players. I don't care if odds are MP player has <TT, I'm outta' position & the cards have backs on them from preventing me from confirming what he is holding. Plus, there are 2 other players......

I'll watch the hand unfold from the rail, salivating over being the button the next hand.

Pretty much solved the thread here.

Grunch... Remember you have to add the bet to the pot. If the pot is $40 and someone bets $14, you are calling $14 to $54, not $40. That will fix you math and everything should line up. Dig?

I try to think fractionally rather than in defined numbers. If someone bets the size of the pot, you are priced at 2:1. That's 2 (the even sized pot and current bet) to you 1 (your call).

If some bets half the pot, you are getting 3:1. The 3 is two parts pot and one part bet to your one part call.

2:1 of course means that if you are less than a 33% dog you can call correctly. I'm not even considering implied odds or reraise semi bluff strategies.

3:1 means you can call if you're less than a 25% dog similarly.

Then just eyeball it and use a sliding scale.

Or simply just memorize them.

It's a lot easier to use memory part of your brain than to calculate on the fly.

Yea implied odds is obviously the answer here.

BUT... you also need to consider your opponents' tendencies. This really can't be answered in a vacuum.

You will have no implied odds versus some opponents, and you will have HUGE implied odds vs other opponents.